Re: Evidence of God -- RELATIVITY

stoney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> On 7 Nov 2003 18:18:28 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Crowley),
> Message ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> alt.atheism;
> 
> (snip)
> 
> >This is a 21 st century allegory for someone riding a subway train. 
> >One has to use the vernacular language if one is going to Win Atheists
> >and Influence Heretics.
> 
> You forget most U.S. based atheists (small 'a' unless it's the first
> word in a sentence) were once theists.  In the main, who were of one or
> more of the xtian sects.
> 
> You also don't consider that, according to all other xtian sects, *you*
> are a heretic.
> 
> What will convince others your deity and sect is correct is concise
> definitions and objective supporting evidence.  Otherwise, there is no
> reason to treat your particular fantasy as anything other than it is.
> Below puts it in a 'nutshell.'
> 
> /quote
> 
> Kissing Hank's Ass
> A parable by Rev. Jim Huber. Now available as a pamphlet.
>  
> This morning there was a knock at my door. When I
> answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely
> dressed couple. The man spoke first:
> 
> John: "Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."
> Mary: Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."
> Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why
> would I want to kiss His ass?"
> John: "If you kiss Hank's ass, He'll give you a million dollars; and if
> you don't, He'll kick the shit out of you."
> Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"
> John: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropists. Hank built this town. Hank
> owns this town. He can do whatever he wants, and what He wants is to
> give you a million dollars, but He can't until you kiss his ass."
> Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..."
> Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million
> dollars?
> Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"
> Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."
> John: "Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."
> Me: "Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"
> Mary: "Oh yes, all the time..."
> Me: "And has He given you a million dollars?"
> John: "Well no. You don't actually get the money until you leave town."
> Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?"
> Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the
> money, and He kicks the shit out of you."
> Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the
> million dollars?"
> John: "My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year,
> and I'm sure she got the money."
> Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?"
> John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."
> Me: "So what makes you think He'll actually give you the money if you've
> never talked to anyone who got the money?"
> Mary: "Well, he gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll
> get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a
> twenty-dollar bill on the street."
> Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?"
> John: "Hank has certain 'connections.'"
> Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."
> John: "But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And
> remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass He'll kick the shit of you."
> Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight
> from him..."
> Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."
> Me: "Then how do you kiss His ass?"
> John: "Sometimes we just blow Him a kiss, and think of His ass. Other
> times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."
> Me: "Who's Karl?"
> Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing
> Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."
> Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank,
> that Hank wanted you to kiss His ass, and that Hank would reward you?"
> John:  "Oh no! Karl has a letter he got from Hank years ago explaining
> the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."
>   
> From the desk of Karl
> 
> 1. Kiss Hank's ass and He'll give you a million dollars
> when you leave town.
> 
> 2. Drink only in moderation.
> 
> 3. Kick the shit out of people who aren't like you.
> 
> 4. Eat right.
> 
> 5. Hank dictated this list Himself.
> 
> 6. The moon is made of green cheese.
> 
> 7. Everything Hank says is right.
> 
> 8. Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
> 
> 9. Don't use alcohol.
> 
> 10, Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
> 
> 11. Kiss Hank's ass or He'll kick the shit out of you.  
>  
> Me: "This appears to be written on Karl's letterhead."
> Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper."
> Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's
> handwriting."
> John: "Of course, Hank dictated it."
> Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"
> Mary: "Not now, but years ago He would talk to some people."
> Me: "I thought you said He was a philanthropist. What sort of
> philanthropist kicks the shit out of people just because they're
> different?"
> Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."
> Me: "How do you figure that?"
> Mary: "Item 7 says 'Everything Hank says is right.' That's good enough
> for me!"
> Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."
> John: "No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides,
> item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' Item 4 says 'Eat right,' and
> item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone
> knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too."
> Me: "But 9 says 'Don't use alcohol.' which doesn't quite go with item 2,
> and 6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain
> wrong."
> John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As
> far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for
> sure."
> Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of
> rock..."
> Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out
> of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."
> Me: "I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon was
> somehow 'captured' by the Earth has been discounted*. Besides, not
> knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese."
> John: "Aha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know
> Hank is always right!"
> Me: "We do?"
> Mary: "Of course we do, Item 5 says so."
> Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the
> list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated
> it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than
> saying 'Hank's right because He says He's right.'"
> John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come
> around to Hank's way of thinking."
> Me: "But...oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?"
> Mary: She blushes.
> John: "Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else
> is wrong."
> Me: "What if I don't have a bun?"
> John: "No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong."
> Me: "No relish? No Mustard?"
> Mary: She looks positively stricken.
> John: He's shouting. "There's no need for such language! Condiments of
> any kind are wrong!"
> Me: "So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it
> would be out of the question?"
> Mary: Sticks her fingers in her ears."I am not listening to this. La la
> la, la
> la, la
> la la."
> John: "That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat
> that..."
> Me: "It's good! I eat it all the time."
> Mary: She faints.
> John: He catches Mary. "Well, if I'd known you where one of those I
> wouldn't have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the shit out of you I'll
> be there, counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's ass for you,
> you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater."
> 
> With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.
> 
> * Older versions say "I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory
> that the Moon came from the Earth has been discounted. Besides, not
> knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese." Several people
> have written to say that the current theory is that the Moon did indeed
> come from the Earth. I've finally gotten around to making the change.
> 
> http://www.jhuger.com/kisshank.mv

Actually the historical precedent is as follows -

"
Me (Stoney): 'Well, actually I don'thave to kiss Hanks's ass at all!'

John and Mary:  'Huh!  Why not??'

Me (Stoney): 'Because I'm His Son, and He told me to tell you He's
sick of your game of 'Kiss Ass'.'

John : "Here, I'm not sure a charge of heresy lies against you"

Mary : "Yeah, we crucify people like you.  Wrecks our entire setup,
see, and we don't want any wise guys around here.  When you got a good
racket going, you stick to it."

Stoney insists he really is Hank's Son, so in the end Stoney Rascal
Master gets crucified.

John & Mary: "Wait till we tell Hank about this!  Bloody cheek! 
Thinking he's going to wreck the whole reason for the town's even
existing."

> 
> Copyright © 1997, 1998 Jim Huber all rights reserved.
> 
> 
> >Bob Crowley.
> 
>          
> 
>    
>              Stoney
> "Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
>                and
>           SCAMPERMEISTER!"
> 
> When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
> When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
> When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
> /end humour alert
> 
> alt.atheism military veteran #11
> {so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}