Re: Evidence of God

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (stone) wrote in
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: 

> John Hattan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>... 
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (shirley) wrote:
>> 
>> >I believe in god, read the bible everyday.
>> 
>> People read other holy books and believe in different gods
>> from yours. Why are they wrong and you right?
> 
> This is why they are wrong and I am sure Christianity is
> right: 
> 
> I have a  Bachelor's degree in Physics. I did a scientific
> experiment to test for the
> existence of God. I simply looked up to the ceiling and
> asked God to give me
> evidence that He really existed so that I would know and
> not just believe. I did this
> several times over a period of weeks or months. I assumed
> that if He really did
> exist, He would do this because He loved me and didn't want
> me to go to hell. I
> did this as a serious experiment; it's either true or it
> isn't. I was an agnostic
> science student at the time.

> Later I got involved in
> parapsychology and found out that there really are people
> that can heal by the
> laying on of hands as Jesus did and they are being studied
> by scientists.

I would be interested to know how they establish a control that 
accouts for the fact that the body is often self-healiing.

> The Aura energy field around a healer's body
> can transmit healing energy to the body
> of the patient; this can be filmed by a technique called
> Kirlian photography.
> http://www.synergy-co.com/kirlian1-6.html

Bzzzt.  Kirlian photography shows that a strange effect can be 
produced on photographic film.  Let me see a Kirlian photograph 
that shows an actual transfer of energy from one person to 
another.  Then, show me how you control for optical effects 
which are known to produce similar images.

> So the healing miracles of Jesus could be true. Later I
> studied UFOs

Did you?  What particular UFO did you study; just one will 
suffice.

> and a UFO
> researcher pointed out that there are flying objects in the
> Bible that are associated
> with angels that look like the UFOs that people are taking
> photgraphs of today.
> So, Bible stories of angels could be true too. I got a book
> on the occult. It said
> that certain sensitive people and psychics can see into the
> spirit world; they can
> see little glimpses of spiritual beings that look like
> points of light in the air. I
> started reading the New testament to see what it said.

> Around this time I started
> hearing evil and threatening thoughts coming into my mind
> as if from somewhere
> else, they weren't my thoughts.

And you proved that how?

> I also started seeing
> little colored flashes of light
> in the air around the time I heard these evil thoughts;
> they were like visions, not
> really in the physical world. I decided that this was
> evidence that demons exist
> and they were attacking me with evil thoughts trying to
> stop me from becoming a
> christian;

Is that the most likely explanation?  How did you establish 
control for the fact that people are able to hallucinate?

> I saw glimpses into the spirit world during
> these attacks that looked like
> little colored points of light in the air, like the occult
> book said.
> Then one night
> when I was asleep, I saw a night vision of Jesus talking to
> me; it seemed like He
> was really there, it was not a dream.

A nightly vision while you were asleep, but it wasn't a dream.  
How did you distinguish that.

> I had an
> overwhelming feeling during this vision like I knew that He
> had all the power in the
> universe; like anything He commands to happen will happen.
> I heard His voice
> paraphrasing something written in the Bible.
> He called me by my name
> and said, you must die before you enter society. Unless the
> seed die, the tree cannot bear good fruit. All trees that
> do not bear fruit, will be cut down. He was paraphrasing
> this scripture in the New Testament:
> John 12:24  Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn
> of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone:
> but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
> This scripture goes along with these that follow it.
> John 12:25  He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he
> that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life
> eternal. John 12:26  If any man serve me, let him follow
> me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any
> man serve me, him will my Father honour.
> The interpretation is that when a man comes to Jesus for
> salvation, to be saved from hell, that man must allow his
> old way of living to die, and he must take on a new life of
> serving Jesus, so that he can bear good fruit for the
> Kingdom of God. Immediately after that I woke up. I asked
> God to give me proof; He gave me
> proof. I have been a fundamentalist christian ever since.
> If you really want proof,
> ask for it seriously, like I did. Have the idea in your
> mind that if God really does prove Himself, then you will
> serve Him. In the New Testament Jesus said, "I am the way,
> the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but
> by Me. The only way to get to God is through Jesus Christ,
> all other ways are
> false. It is not enough just to know that God exists, you
> can only get to heaven
> through christianity all other religions lead to hell. When
> Jesus spoke
> I heard one word after another like normal speech, but when
> I thought 
>      about it, all of the words seemed to have happened at
>      the same 
> time.
>      It was like time did not make any sense. His voice was
>      like that 
> of
>      any normal man, not to deep, and not too high in
>      pitch. The words seemed to fill my entire being as if
>      they were put into me with 
> real
>      power.
>      This happened to me in 1975. Jesus was coming to me in
>      a darkened 
> room
>      so I did not get a completely clear look at him. At
>      the time, I thought he looked similar to Max Von Sidow
>      in the movie THE 
> GREATEST
>      STORY EVER TOLD, except His hair was all the way down
>      to His shoulders; longer than in the movie. I did
>      notice darkness around 
> His
>      chin as if He had a short beard. His face is different
>      from Max 
> Von
>      Sydow's but there are similarities. He seems to look
>      younger than that, and more cheerful.
>      When He said the words, "will be cut down", the tone
>      of His voice changed as if He did not want to frighten
>      me. After the words 
> were
>      finished, He put His hand on my back and smiled at me
>      and 
> disappeared.
> 
> You need to consider what type of a test I was doing.

Indeed!

> I was
> probing for an answer to a question that is not bound to
> the physical world.

Then it's not really a test, as such, is it?

> True reality as we observe it is
> composed of the physical world, which is easily tested by
> physics and chemistry,

Well, relatively easily, compared to the stuff you've been 
talking about.

> and it is also composed of the
> mental dimension,

Mental dimension?  Where is that exactly.

> which does really exist, but not in the
> physical world. [Your thoughts and desires and will do
> really exist, but not in the physical world. They are
> connected to the physical world by your physical body.] If
> God does exist, as He is described, then He is like a
> universal mind or consciousness,

Is he actually that, or just like that?

> that created everything
> and is in control of everything. To test for a universal
> mind, I needed to do an unusual experiment.

You've already ignored the null result of your first experiment, 
why bother?

> The reason that
> I decided that these points of light were evidence of
> demons is because of this: The occult book that dealt with
> demons and spirits said that glimpses into the Spirit world
> looked like points of light in the air.

Ah, well that proves it.

> And also, I would
> hear evil voices in my mind, threatening me and saying the
> kind of things that demons would say [threats, insults 
> against me and God, etc...], and I heard these thoughts as
> if they were coming from the points of light.

Again, how did your experiment establish control for 
hallucination?

> As if the
> points of light were appearing, saying these things to me
> telepathically, so that I heard them in my mind, and then
> disappearing. This was surely a phenomenon that looked to
> me like attacks by evil spirits or demons.

Or a mental disorder.

> After I became a
> Christian I prayed to Jesus Christ to ask Him to protect me
> from the attacks of demons, and the problem went away.

Uh huh.

> According to the Bible, the Devil and his demons are 
> controlling everyone that is not a real Christian, to a
> greater or lesser degree.

How can we tell who's a real christian?

> (Some people are completely demon
> possessed.) When you try to become a Christian, you are
> breaking free from the  demon's control and that is when
> you will notice them trying to fight against you. If Satan
> already has you moving in the wrong direction, he does not
> need to fight you; he has already got you. Try to become a
> real Christian, and try to break free from the Devil's
> control, then he will start to fight against you to try to
> prevent you from becoming a Christian and getting right
> with God. This is what the evidence suggests that I was
> experiencing when I started to become a Christian, in 1975.
> Also, these points of light that I was seeing, looked like
> little visions, not like a real physical phenomenon that
> happens in the physical world. Therefore, I did not
> consider that a physical form of energy was of any
> importance here. Physical energy of the sort that physics
> studies, might not have been involved. Remember, the mental
> dimension is real and does exist, but not in the physical
> world, just like your thoughts and desires exist, but not
> in the physical world. Your mind is connected to the
> physical world through your physical body, so there is a
> definite connection between these two different dimensions.
> Both dimensions really exist.


> I had to do an unusual type
> of experiment because of the unususal nature of what I was
> testing for: - The Existence of God. Experimental controls
> associated with my experiment:

> Believe that if God really
> exixts then He does care about you and He does not want you
> to go to hell. Believe that He would prove Himself to you
> to prevent you from going to Hell, if He really does exist. 
> Ask God to prove to you that He exists, several times over
> a period of weeks or months.
> Have patience to wait for the proof.

Are you saying that those statements represent your actual 
controls?

> I was involved in Science and that is the kind of proof
> that God gave me.

If you think you've described a scientific experiment anywhere 
in your posting, you need to hand back your PhD.

> If you are involved in something else God
> will probably prove Himself to you in a way that you can
> best understand. He meets you where you are at.

Probably?  How probable; what are the odds?

> Jesus Christ said:
> John 14:6   Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth,
> and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
> Mark 16:15   And he said unto them, Go ye into all the
> world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
> Mark 16:16   He that believeth and is baptized shall be
> saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
> 
> Do not allow yourself to be deceived by the many false
> religions of the World.

I'm doing the best I can.

> False religions lead to hell.

So it's safer not to follow any christian anywhere.