Re: Evidences of God

On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:00:07 +0200, "Chain Smoker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>"stoney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
snip
>> A few other points.
>>
>> 1)  According to the Christian superstition, all are mere actors in a
>> pointless play hitting their marks and spouting their lines as was
>> scripted eons ago.
>
>According to Christianity, on the other hand, we are all free moral agents,
>and choose our own destiny by our life's choices.


That would depend on what branch of Christianity one was talking
about.  The one that believes in free will by so doing contradicts
their belief in an omnipotent god.  The one that does not believe in
free will by so doing contradicts their belief in moral responsibility
and makes god a monster.

>
>> 2)  I find it quite interesting many theists can't fathom a lack of
>> belief and insist, like you do, that their theism premises have been
>> objectively supported and non-believers are merely being 'difficult' or
>> some such.
>

>I understand lack of belief.  I just regret it, as I feel the doubter may be
>in for a brutal shock later on.

Which would make your god unjust.


>
>> That is not the case.  Further most U.S. based atheists were theists, in
>> the main, members of one  or more xtian sects.  Some, not me, were rabid
>> evangelistic types or looking at a career in the clergy.  Many times
>> people have indicated how painful the process of losing belief was and
>> how hard they struggled to retain it.
>

>I'm not sure how you determined that most U.S. based atheists used to be
>theists.  Every instance of this is tragic, though.

That would assume that your religion is correct and that your god
punishes people for being honest.


>
>> Please keep in mind there has been no suggestion that you lose your
>> theism.  If such brings you comfort then, by all means, retain it.
>
>Thank you, it does.
>
>> If you have a question, feel free to inquire.  Most folks here in aa
>> have no axe to grind.  I do warn you people here have the tendency to be
>> brutally honest.
>
>Yes, I have a question.  Pretty much every one of the atheists that I have
>come across refer to all of the world's major religions and religious
>leaders by the same names as followers of that religion do.  For a couple
>examples, they call Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, and Judaism, Islam,
>Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, and Judaism, respectively.  Buddha, Confucius,
>Mohammed, and the Dalai Lama, they call Buddha, Confucius, Mohammed, and the
>Dalai Lama.
>
>These lists are not complete by any means.  In fact, this rule extends, in
>my experience, to all religions but one.  Christianity, you often refer to
>as xtianity.  Jesus, I often see called Jeezuz or Jeezus.  The question,
>then, is this.  What is it about Christ and his followers that warrants
>special attention and disdain from many atheists? 

It is obviously because most atheists in this group come into contact
with Christians more than any other sect.  It is usually Christians
who personally call us evil and tell us that we are "in for a brutal
shock" (remember?).  It is Christians who insist that their religious
rules be observed by all and enforced by secular law in the countries
most of the participants in this group live in.


 It cannot be that we are
>more zealous or aggressive in our faith -- Muslims kill themselves often in
>pursuit of theirs.  It cannot be that we are more interested in gaining
>converts than the others -- again, the Muslims are more aggressive.  

I do not know how you measure such things, but I do know that no
Moslem has come to my door trying to convert me; and that no Moslem
has insisted that Moslem prayers be said in the local school.  They,
no doubt, are doing that in other countries, but I have no personal
experience with it.  I believe that many other religions are every bit
as irrational, intolerant and potentially dangerous to individual
liberty as Christianity, but it is Christianity that affects me
directly.  It is Christianity, for example, that is trying, here in
Europe, to have their religion be officially recognized as having a
special and unique position in society in the upcoming "European
Constitution"; and they may very well succeed.



snip
Thomas P.

"That there are manes, a subterranean kingdom, a ferryman with a long pole, and black 
frogs in the whirlpools 
of the Styx; that so many thousand men could cross the waves in a single boat, today 
even children refuse to believe."

Juvenal