Re: How big is the universe? (was: Evidences of God)

"Ronald Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> "Daniel T." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Jeremy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > So if the universe had a beginning, the next question that I see to ask
> > > would be was there a cause to the beginning?  I see basically two
> > > options... either there was something that caused the beginning of the
> > > universe, or nothing caused the beginning of the universe.
> >
> > We're already stuck... You apparently have a different definition for
> > the word "universe" than I do. Your definition seems to allow "things"
> > to exist outside the "universe", mine does not. So where do we go from
> > here?
> >
> Since there was a beginning, there was a point where nothing existed; or
> was it? The big bang happened at zero (T0). This was the beginning
> of time, space, matter, gravity, nature and the laws of physics. The
> question is, as you said where do we go from here?

You have made a positive assertion, that the universe had a definite 
beginning. At this point, I do not accept the evidence available.

Regardless, it side-steps my entire point. Even if the universe had a 
beginning, God is part of the universe and therefore he cannot have 
existed before the beginning of it (especially since time is part of the 
universe as well, and therefore there was no "before" the universe.) So, 
unless Jeremy wishes to assert that God created something that is 
greater than Himself, he cannot assert that God created the universe.