Re: Evidences of God

 On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 02:39:48 GMT in alt.atheism, Jeremy (Jeremy
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) said, directing the reply to   alt.atheism 



>Please read the post "Evidences of God - Preface" before reading this post.
[snip]

>So if the universe had a beginning, the next question that I see to ask 
>would be was there a cause to the beginning?  I see basically two 
>options... either there was something that caused the beginning of the 
>universe, or nothing caused the beginning of the universe.
>
>When I look at the option of it not being caused, I don't see this as a 
>logical option.  If something did not cause the universe to be created, 
>then it would have had to come from nothing.
>
>The laws of science show that matter can not come from nothing.  If I 
>accept that matter can come from nothing, that puts the rest of science 
>in an very odd position.

But....!

What you've said above implicitly posits that causality exited "prior
to" (whatever the hell that means given that time is a property of the
universe) and independently of this universe. 

If causality is a property of the universe, like time, and the other 3
dimensions, then the necessity for the universe to have been caused
vanishes in a puff of smoke!

Are there any grounds for supposing that causality is a property of
the universe? I think there might be: it is, for instance, tricky to
see how things could be causal in the absence of time ("if this, then
that" doesn't gel is "then" has no meaning) and the physicists tell us
that at a very fundamental level events are acausal. If causality
existed "prior to" the universe and gave rise to  the universe then I
would have thought that the universe would be causal all the way down.
But this does not appear to be the case.

Given this, I think there are legitimate grounds for being seriously
suspicious of your assertion that the universe was caused.

[snip]
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