Re: Purgatory?

"Joseph Geloso" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:14:22 -0700, "Iconoclast" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Joseph Geloso" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:40:26 -0700, "Iconoclast" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"Joseph Geloso" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> >> On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:15:52 -0700, "Iconoclast" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Joseph Geloso" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> >> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> >> >> On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 07:20:16 -0700, "Iconoclast" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >Faith is an attribute, not a church or belief system.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Faith is a virtue, one of the three theological virtues of Faith,
> >> >> >> Hope, and Charity.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Do you have clue what you wrote?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Faith is given by God.
> >> >>
> >> >> All virtue is given by God, and Faith is one of the virtues. A
virtue
> >> >> that a person possesses could be said to be an attribute, so that a
> >> >> faithful person is said to have the attribute of faith, or perhaps
> >> >> fidelity would be a better choice.
> >> >>
> >> >> >You don't grow it.
> >> >>
> >> >> God will increase your faith if you ask Him to.
> >> >>
> >> >> >You don't produce it.
> >> >>
> >> >> God produces it in the soul.
> >> >>
> >> >> >It is one OF THE three attributes.
> >> >>
> >> >> It can be said to be an attribute, as above, but fidelity would
> >> >> probably be a better choice of words. Faith is one of the seven
> >> >> principal virtues, of which the first three are called the
Theological
> >> >> Virtues, namely, Faith, Hope, and Charity. The remaining four
virtues
> >> >> are called the Cardinal Virtues of Temperance, Justice, Prudence,
and
> >> >> Fortitude. All these virtues can be cultivated and increased in the
> >> >> soul, by their exercise, and by prayer.
> >> >
> >> >Who said?
> >>
> >> I did. Just above. How bad is *your* memory??
> >
>
> >If you don't know what faith is or how it is obtained, you haven't the
> >knowledge to continue in any subsequent theological conversation.
>
> Faith is a virtue and it is obtained from God. God gives the first
> impulse to Faith without anything done on the part of the believer,
> since no one can initiate Faith within himself. The first grace God
> gives is the grace to pray. When a person accepts that grace, he
> prays, and God answers his prayers by increasing his faith.
>
> Now there remains the following, which you did not address:
>
> >
> >The ONLY productive attribute in scripture is Faith.
>
> Show the Scripture that calls Faith "an attribute." Then show the
> Scripture that calls it the "ONLY productive attribute."

See Eph 2:1
Eph 2:8-10

Name any other attribute given or imbued by God.

>
> >
> >I'm not interested in pedantic Catholic semantics.  It is man made and
> >obscures truth.
>
> Assuming you mean to confine truth to that which is explicitly in the
> Scriptures, I'm waiting to see what you claim is there.
>

The Gospel is sufficient for me.
The Gospel is sufficient for mankind.

Religion and legalism is a thing apart