Re: Purgatory?

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:16:15 -0500, ":+D"
<<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:

>On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:08:42 -0500, Joseph Geloso
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote the following funny stuff in Usenet
>News'Froups! :
>
>>
>>If "The Church" is not even on this planet, then we're all going to
>>Hell, regardless of denomination. Care to rephrase?
>>
>No.
>
>Christ created HIS CHURCH, and all of us who BELIEVE on his perfect
>name are members of it now.

As long as you have been properly baptized, though the desire for
Baptism also makes one a member of the Church, in anticipation of the
Sacrament.

>We will see it when we arrive in Heaven.

*If* you arrive in Heaven. 

>why do you imagine you'll go to Hell because HIS CHURCH is not
>earthbound?

If the Church does not exist on Earth, then no one has any hope for
salvation, at all.

>
>>>At least I have not arrogantly and falsely claimed that the Baptist
>>>Church is the 'THE CHURCH' like you and others have claimed that the
>>>roman religion is 'THE CHURCH'.
>>
>>I say nothing about the Emperor worship of pagan Rome. I correctly
>>assert that the One Church subsists in the Roman Catholic Church and
>>in no others. 

>You correctly asserted nothing but arrogant false claims that the RC
>denmination is 'the' Church.

It is not arrogance to state the truth. However, persecution follows
upon stating the truth, and the charge of arrogance is a form of
persecution.

>>
>>>As BELIEVERS IN CHRIST, we are united- NOT in denominational
>>>doctrines, practices, or traditions.
>>>Therefore, as fellow BELIEVERS, yes, you and I are in HIS family. BUT-
>>>that does NOR make me a Roman Catholic any more than it makes you a
>>>Baptist.
>>
>>I never said you were Roman Catholic. I sad you were Christian.
>>
>You also said I 'was Catholic'. I most derfinitely AM NOT a Catholic.

I don't think I did, but if I did, I was wrong. I think I said
something more like, you are a member of the One Church, and the One
Church subsists in the Catholic Church.


>>>We are a TOTALLY different faith from rc'ism. TOTALLY.
>>
>>I doubt that. If you were *totally* different, you would be the
>>"Church of Satan" or something like it. Even they are just an inverted
>>copy. Do you read the Bible? Do you pray? Are your members baptized?
>>These are three things you have in common with the Roman Catholic
>>religion, so you're not *totally* different, after all.
>>
>We are totally different in our doctrines, practices, etc.

Everything you do that deviates from Catholicism, is by that token not
from God, nor does it lead back to God.

>>>
>>>Your comment :
>>>'And if the Baptist religion were to disappear from the face of the
>>>Earth, God's Church -- the Catholic Church -- would yet remain.'
>>>bespeaks NOTHING BUT ARROGANCE and false pride.
>>
>>How is it arrogant to speak the truth? Just because you don't like
>>it...?
>
>It WAS arrogance.

If I have to choose between telling the truth and having you persecute
me with false charges of arrogance, or lieing and being your friend, I
choose the truth. You are not more important to me than the truth.

>If all the other churches are doomed to destruction, YOUR DENOMINATION
>IS ALSO.

You'd like to think so, because that would support your thesis of "it
doesn't really matter to God which denomination you're in. They're all
the same." It is important to you to defend that thesis, because
without it you are left in the uncomfortable position of knowing it
does matter to God, and the True Church does exist on Earth, and I and
others have informed you that that's the Catholic Church.

>You're nothing special, and the roman catholic denomination is also
>subject to destruction.

Not unless Jesus Christ is a liar.

>To claim otherwise has to be either gross arrogance or sheer
>stupidity.

Call it what you will. Your persecution of me does not change the fact
that what I have told you is simply the truth.

>>
>>>Becasue on the last day, if not before then, your catholic
>>>denomination WILL be torn asunder.
>>
>>Not according to the Promise of Christ, it won't. He promised the
>>gates of Hell would never prevail against His Church. That means, in
>>case you didn't catch it, that the Churc is still on Earth today,
>>contbrary to your asserion that "THE CHURCH is not even on this
>>planet."

>Against HIS REAL CHURCH, no the gates of Hell will not prevail. But
>ALL MANMADE CHURCHES WILL FALL. That includes yours.

My Church was instituted by Christ, built upon the foundation of the
Apostles. She is here to stay.


>>>you're not 2000 years old, either. You were not THE CHURCH founded by
>>>our Lord Jesus Christ.
>>
>I never arrogantly or falsely claimed ours was. I wqould never do such
>a heinous thing.
>
>>When did the break in continuity take place? Can you point to a date?
>>
>The break in WHAT continuity? Your denomination came about around late
>3rd to early 4th century.

That's absurd. Who was Saint Linus, then? Saint Evaristus? Saint
Clement?

>
>>>Joe, I have no time, nor the inclination to repeatedly ARGUE with you.
>>
>>Then don't.
>>
>I will stop when YOU STOP making up such ridiculous wild claims!

My claim is not wild nor ridiculous. It is simple. Jesus Christ
founded one Church, and that Church is still here today, and it is the
Catholic Church. Nothing could be more reasonable than that. I won't
stop making such a reasonable claim. If you want to try to actually
disprove that claim, go for it. I will be here to rebut you. But until
then, I simply find your claim that the Church of Jesus Christ either
never was here, or disappeared from the Earth at some point in
history, to be "wild and ridiculous." Also your claim that the Church
did not exist before the 3rd or 4th century. Who are the men I named
above? They are known to history, and they all existed prior to the
time you say.


>>>Let's just say I will continue to disagree on your view of 'THE
>>>CHURCH' and leave it at that.
>>
>>That is your own stubbornness and, yes, arrogance of pride.
>>
>Fine- whatever you wish to believe.
>
>goodbye then.

Whatever you wish to do. Goodbye, or hello. Whatever you wish to do.