Re: Purgatory?

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:04:00 -0500, "Cracker !  :+D"
<<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:

>On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:26:04 -0500, Joseph Geloso
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote the following funny stuff in Usenet
>News'Froups! :
>
>>
>>>Well, I found your comment about 'you would be a roman catholic'
>>>offensive, to be perfectly honest, Joseph.
>>
>>That is only because of your attachment to your sect. If you were only
>>interested in the truth, it would not offend you to hear it told.
>>
>Sect? I am a member of the Baptist faith. 'Sect' sounds more like a
>cult than anything else, depsite dictinary definition.

I have no problem referring to the "Baptist Faith."

>>>I want no part of being a roman catholic.
>>>And since it IS roman, how is 'romish' offensive?
>>
>>Because that is not the Church's name, nor is it the religion's name.
>>
>Well, our Church is not named a 'sect' either ... it is called the
>BAPTIST CHURCH.

I have a bit of a problem referring to the Baptist Faith, or the
Baptist system of religion, as a "Church." That is not what it is.
Baptists, as long as they are properly baptized, are members of
Christ's One Church, and that Church subsists in the Catholic Church.

So if you want to say you and I belong to the One Church, that is
O.K., but it is not *my* Church vs. *your* Church. And if the Baptist
religion were to disappear from the face of the Earth, God's Church --
the Catholic Church -- would yet remain. By contrast, Our Lord
promised that the Church He founded -- the Catholic Church -- would
remain on Earth through every age.

>
>>>And you ARE just another denomination.
>>
>>Not "just another" one. The name "Roman Catholic Church" denoted 
sorry that should be "... denotes ..."
>>the
>>still undivided Church. While you may be a member of her if you were
>>properly Baptized, it is nowhere near the truth to say one
>>denomination is as good as any other. 
>
>LOL! 'properly baptized'???? I most certainly WAS properly baptized,
>by immersion, as our Lord Himself was also baptized, according to the
>Bible.

Were you baptized "In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the
Holy Spirit," according to the Commmand of Christ? To be baptized with
the Baptism of John is not the same thing, and the Scripture attests
to that fact also.

>I thought better of you than this, Joseph. how dare you assume I was
>not 'properly' baptized.

I do not assume anything. I said "if you were..."

>and as for the roman religion,. it is NOT the Church founded by
>Christ. I must again disagree with you on that.

You are right, the "Roman religion" -- emperor worship -- was not
institued by Christ. The Catholic Church was. If you were properly
baptized, you are a member of her.


>>The unity of the Church subsists
>>in the Roman Catholic Church. You receive only part of her doctrines,
>
>I have nothing to DO with its doctrines, thank you.

Do you believe in God the Father Alimighty, Creator of Heaven and
Earth?

Do you believe in Jesus Christ, His only Son, Our Lord?

That He was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary?

That He suffered under Pontius Pilate for our sakes, was crucified,
died, was buried, and descended to the dead?

That He rose from the dead on the third day, ascended into Heaven, and
is now seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty?

That He will come again in Glory to judge both the living and the
dead?

Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, who
proceeds from the Father and the Son, and with the Father and the Son
is worshipped and glorified?

Do you believe in One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church?

Do you believe in the Communion of Saints?

Do you believe in the Forgiveness of sins?

Do you believe in the bodily Resurrection?

Do you believe in Everlasting Life?

All these are Catholic Doctrines. If you believe some of these, you
believe some of Catholic Doctrine. If you believe all of them, you are
ready to be joined fully to us in the Full Communion of the Catholic
Church.

>And what we reject is properly rejected.

Not so.

>We do not NEED the fancy apparel, the phony piety and superfluous
>show.
>We don't need the expensive goblets, the monstrance, bell-ringers,
>insence,etc.. 

Nor do we, but these things aid, rather than detract from, true
Worship.

>We worship the Lord plainly, simply, and honestly.

We worship Him in spirit and in truth, and carry out *all* that He
commanded us to observe. The Baptists do not. He commanded the Mass,
saying "do this in my memory." The Baptists do not do what He
commanded.


>>and reject the rest. You received from her the Gospel message, and the
>>Word of God, and the life of prayer, and the Sacrament of Baptism if
>>you carry it out according to its proper form. But there are a good
>>many other things that you discard, probably because you do not yet
>>trust God enough to know that He would never allow His Church to go
>>astray, for the sake of His Name.

>Don't make me vomit!
>Your religion gave me nothing.
>My faith in the Lord comes from HIM, not a bunch of rc's!

How can they believe without a preacher?

>And you can holler until the cows come home about the rcc being 'the
>only church'..... but it is still false.

I'm not interested in wating for the cows. If you want me to tell you
the truth, you are going to hear it. If you don't want me to tell you
the truth, you are welcome to stop replying to me, any time.

>
>>>>The weight of Biblical evidence is for the Catholic position.
>>>>
>>>Which Bible? 
>>
>>Your Bible will do just fine, for now.

>My Bible doesn't support the false teachings of the roman catholic
>denomination.

Nothing the Church teaches can be false, according to the promise of
Christ. Saint Paul called her the pillar and ground of Truth.

>>
>>>The Bible the RC denomination uses?
>>
>>That one would work too, except that you do not yet trust God enough
>>to accept all the canonically accepted books as canonical.
>>
>Don't presume to tell me whether I TRUST GOD or not.

If you trust God, why not "believe all things" and "test all things,
holding fast to what is good?" There are some things you are afraid to
believe because you think -- incorrectly --  it would offend God.


>I most certainly DO, and thanks to HIM, I've made it this far.

And there are more steps along the road, and I hope you will make it
yet further.

> With
>His continued help, I will continue to survive.

But He came, not that they might survive, but that they might have
life and have it to the full.

>How DARE you so arrogantly assume I don't have enough faith in Him.
>You are now sounding just like the other romanists in here.
>
>I don't need to tolerate this.

Indeed you do not, but if you want the truth, you are going to get it,
and if you don't want the truth, why are you conversing with me? Did
you think we were going to agree on the conclusion that every
denomination is man-made, and it doesn't matter to God which one you
choose? Did you really think you were going to get from me, it's O.K.,
you're fine the way you are, just remain a Baptist? 

I am as polite to you as I can be, but I am not going to compromise
the truth for the sake of human politeness.