Re: Purgatory?

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:50:21 -0500, "Doc Watson :O)"
<<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:

>On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:50:50 -0500, Joseph Geloso
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote the following funny stuff in Usenet
>News'Froups! :
>
>>
>>>To believe in 'purgatory' is to claim that Jesus left things
>>>unfinished when He died on the cross.
>>
>>Not at all. Unless you mean it is we who are as yet unfinished. It
>>would be hard for you to disagree with that, right?
>>
>No, Joseph. I'm talking ABOUT Jesus.
>Your belief in 'purgatory' insinuates that when Jesus died, He left
>some things unfinished, and 'purgatory' had to be invented to 'take
>over' for what you class as final cleansing.

The work of Jesus on His Cross is finished, and nothing can be added
to it. However, its merits are not necessarily applied to us all at
once. They could be, if we were but willing, but the unfortunate fact
of human existence is that most are not. What is lacking, then, is
nothing at all in Christ, but something in us. 


>>>Jesus left NOTHING unfinished, and it is THROUGH HIM that we have our
>>>salvation. NO OTHER person, and NO OTHER means.
>>>Period.
>>
>>No problem there. But that does not contradict the notion of
>>Purgatory.
>
>YES sir, indeed it DOES.
>Jesus paid the full price for us by His sacrificial death on that
>cross. There was NO NEED for anything further, and for anyone to
>believe there is, it makes salvatoin a 'work'.

Those in Purgatory do not work. They are incacpable of it. Working out
one's salvation is something done in this life. The Church teaches
that the souls in Purgatory are unable to help themselves. That means
they cannot any longer work out their salvation. That is why they need
our prayers, in order to more quickly release them from their
suffering.

>Purgatory doesn't exist except in the minds of Roman Catholics who
>think it does, I'm sorry.

Why say you're sorry? Sorry implies repentance, and repentance in this
case would mean to stop rejecting the truth and embrace Catholicism.

>
>>All the souls is Purgatory, without exception, will be in
>>Heaven after they have been cleansed. So there is no quesiton of
>>salvation -- they already know they are going to be saved, and this,
>>only through the Blood of Christ. But God is not unjust. Even a human
>>parent punishes his child in order to purge him of the rebellious
>>spirit with which we are all born, due to Original Sin. How much more,
>>then, will God, the Most Loving Father, purify His sons and daughters
>>in order to rid them of *all* sin?
>
>There is no NEED for any 'further purification'.

So you are saying that you are entirely free from all sin, right now?
You know for certain you will never commit another sin? 

That would make you a far better man than me. I know that I am still a
work in progress. I know -- and hope -- that God is not finished with
me, yet. If He has already done all the converting He's going to do
with me, then I am toast!

>
>And certainly anyone wearing the infamous 'brown scapular' will not
>'be released the following Saturday after their demise by Mary'
>either.
>1. Purgy doesn't exist;

It is the height of childish expectation to think God is going to wave
some magic wand and instantly remove all your sins from you, with no
pain on your part. To give up sins, hurts. And that pain, is known as
Purgatory. It can be suffered in this life or in the next, but no one
who has sinned can escape the suffering of renouncing their sins.
Unless, of course, they choose sin instead of love with finality.
Then, they would be in Hell anyway.

>2. Mary is dead.

Then you deny the Scriptures that say:

1. He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for all are alive
to Him.

2. He will not suffer His faithful one to undergo corruption.