Re: The evil fruits of bad Karma

> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Riku Simonen) wrote
> > >
> > > If the Law of Karma truly exists than poor, handicapped, mentally ill
> > > etc. people are just "enjoying" the evil fruits of his/her previous
> > > evil action. What a disturbing thought what is hard to accept.
> > > 
> > > Riku

Riku, 

I recall that Jonathan Jennings and I once got into a discussion about
the Buddhist concept of karma in which he came up with an interesting
interpretation that would contradict the view of karma you express
above.

You characterize Buddhist karma as a mechanism by which all evil
fruits of one's previous evil deeds are realized through rebirth into
states of misfortune, including poverty, ill-health and mental
imbalance. But this is not necessarily correct. Jonathan's reading
finds karma to operate strictly in the realm of subjective experience,
and to arise strictly as the result of volitional acts.

"...According to the Buddha '...it is volition (cetana) that I call
kamma'...and the teaching on kamma-phala or kamma-vipaka (kamma &
fruit or kamma & result) covers...'volitional' acts...the Buddha
equates kamma with volition and its result is experienced via the
second aggregate of 'feeling'"

That is not the formula you produce above that equates karma with
punishment from any evil act manifesting as a change in one's fortune
(objective circumstances).

While external circumstances may be involved, it is actually in one's
feelings that the result of karma are experienced. Note AN IV.232:

"And what is kamma that is dark with dark result? There is the case
where a certain person fabricates an injurious bodily fabrication...
an injurious verbal fabrication... an injurious mental fabrication...
He rearises in an injurious world where he is touched by injurious
contacts... He experiences feelings that are exclusively painful, like
those of the beings in hell. This is called kamma that is dark with
dark result."

Jonathan analyzes the Buddha's concern with karma to lie in mental
experiences rather than external circumstances. So it is not a matter
of the poor, handicapped, mentally ill enjoying the evil fruits of
previous evil action. You may be find yourself in a position of wealth
or power and still suffer mentally as the result of past volitional
acts.

Jonathan again:
"The Buddha asks a series of rhetorical questions in relation to
killing, theft, adultery, speaking falsehood, greed, hatred, delusion
etc. The answers to these questions don't rest on the answerers
getting any new experience or doing an experiment or whatever. They
can be answered by reference to their existing mental categories. The
answers equate dukkha ("unsatisfactoriness")with greed, hatred and
delusion and these three with being behind killing, theft, adultery
etc. (which equates to the Buddha's list of 'unwholesome' deeds
leading to unwholesome results).

To me, it's not unreasonable to characterize the subjective
experiences of greed, hatred and delusion as 'unsatisfactory', almost
by definition. E.g. with greed there is the perception of a gap
between what one wants and what one has. With hatred, there is a gap
between what one is stuck with and how far away one wishes it was
removed to. With delusion there is a gap between perception and
reality. And it's not a huge leap to hold these to be the precursors
of the "10 unwholesome courses of kamma".

Thank you, Jonathan.

- warren

"About the most originality that any writer can hope to achieve
honestly is to steal with good judgment."
 - Josh Billings