Re: Bad idea: Punishing false accusers

"John James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
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>
> "P Diddy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > "John James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > "Neil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Rich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message:
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> > > [...]
> > > > > Either what you did was right or it was wrong. That you did it
> should
> > > > > be the only thing at issue. If anything, malice should be a factor
> > > > > only in sentencing. It plays no part in whether a crime was
> committed
> > > > > or not.
> > > >
> > > > Actually, it does (or rather, it should) - in a legal sense, for one
> > > > crime at least.  Malice aforethought determines whether a murder was
> > > > committed in English Law.  But actually, this 'malice' thing is a
> > > > diversion.  See below.
> > >
> > > Not so. 'Malice' in the legal sense *means* 'wrongful intention'. It
is
> > not
> > > a diversion, but synonymous with the concept of intent.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > False rape accusations (and reports) are wrong because they
> > > > > are wrong, not because they were made with malice. Absent malice
> they
> > > > > are not right.
> > > >
> > > > It might be more helpful to recognise that the malice does not
always
> > > > come from the alleged victim, as accuser.  The malice may be
entirely
> on
> > > > the part of the police or prosecutor - and aiui, you would agree
that
> > the
> > > > alleged victim does not always have a great deal of control over
> > > > proceedings - he/she may be manipulated by these other agents.
> > > >
> > > > > Malice is not a factor in whether a rape was committed.
> > > >
> > > > Intent is (or should be), though.  We should be talking about
intent,
> > not
> > > > malice, which becomes a misleading term in this context.  i think
that
> > > > this *is* what Alan means.
> > >
> > > As I said above, there is no meaningful distinction between 'malice'
and
> > > 'wrongful intent'.
> > >
> > > [...]
> > >
> > > John James (JJ)
> >
> > This is the true definition of the word malice according to the law.com
> > dictionary
> > malice
> > n. a conscious, intentional wrongdoing either of a civil wrong like
libel
> > (false written statement about another) or a criminal act like assault
or
> > murder, with the intention of doing harm to the victim. This intention
> > includes ill-will, hatred or total disregard for the other's well-being.
> > Often the mean nature of the act itself implies malice, without the
party
> > saying "I did it because I was mad at him, and I hated him," which would
> be
> > express malice. Malice is an element in first degree murder. In a
lawsuit
> > for defamation (libel and slander) the existence of malice may increase
> the
> > judgment to include general damages.
> > http://dictionary.law.com/
>
> Your point being what? It rather seems to confirm what I said. Obviously
> 'malice' has other meanings in common parlance - but we were and are
talking
> about the law in this thread.
>
> John James (JJ)
>
My point was for everyone to know exactly what the LEGAL definition of
malice is.
I don't have to disagree with everything you say. We disagree on the "N"
word and
its usage, and probably always will.


> As an aside, it got me thinking about 'male', and whether there were
> connections there to malice - particularly as the prefix 'mal-' used to be
> 'male-' in Middle English (cf 'Malleus Maleficarum' - the infamous 'Hammer
> of Witches'). I don't remember ever making the connection before, which
> seems odd. It turns out there aren't any, so far as I can tell. Modern
> English 'male' comes from the Latin 'mas' (a human male, giving us 'man'
in
> English) via the Old French word 'masle' (manly), which was then shortened
> by the standard French method of dropping an 's' and replacing with the
> circumflex ^ over the 'a' - hence 'male', entering Middle English after
the
> Norman Conquest. The prefix 'mal-' of course comes from the Latin 'mal'
> (meaning 'bad'), which survives in Modern French - as in 'mal de mer'
> (sea-sickness).
>
> Sorry, got a bit distracted...
>
>
>