Re: Bad idea: Punishing false accusers

"P Diddy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "John James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > "Neil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Rich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message:
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> > [...]
> > > > Either what you did was right or it was wrong. That you did it
should
> > > > be the only thing at issue. If anything, malice should be a factor
> > > > only in sentencing. It plays no part in whether a crime was
committed
> > > > or not.
> > >
> > > Actually, it does (or rather, it should) - in a legal sense, for one
> > > crime at least.  Malice aforethought determines whether a murder was
> > > committed in English Law.  But actually, this 'malice' thing is a
> > > diversion.  See below.
> >
> > Not so. 'Malice' in the legal sense *means* 'wrongful intention'. It is
> not
> > a diversion, but synonymous with the concept of intent.
> >
> > >
> > > > False rape accusations (and reports) are wrong because they
> > > > are wrong, not because they were made with malice. Absent malice
they
> > > > are not right.
> > >
> > > It might be more helpful to recognise that the malice does not always
> > > come from the alleged victim, as accuser.  The malice may be entirely
on
> > > the part of the police or prosecutor - and aiui, you would agree that
> the
> > > alleged victim does not always have a great deal of control over
> > > proceedings - he/she may be manipulated by these other agents.
> > >
> > > > Malice is not a factor in whether a rape was committed.
> > >
> > > Intent is (or should be), though.  We should be talking about intent,
> not
> > > malice, which becomes a misleading term in this context.  i think that
> > > this *is* what Alan means.
> >
> > As I said above, there is no meaningful distinction between 'malice' and
> > 'wrongful intent'.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > John James (JJ)
>
> This is the true definition of the word malice according to the law.com
> dictionary
> malice
> n. a conscious, intentional wrongdoing either of a civil wrong like libel
> (false written statement about another) or a criminal act like assault or
> murder, with the intention of doing harm to the victim. This intention
> includes ill-will, hatred or total disregard for the other's well-being.
> Often the mean nature of the act itself implies malice, without the party
> saying "I did it because I was mad at him, and I hated him," which would
be
> express malice. Malice is an element in first degree murder. In a lawsuit
> for defamation (libel and slander) the existence of malice may increase
the
> judgment to include general damages.
> http://dictionary.law.com/

Your point being what? It rather seems to confirm what I said. Obviously
'malice' has other meanings in common parlance - but we were and are talking
about the law in this thread.

John James (JJ)

As an aside, it got me thinking about 'male', and whether there were
connections there to malice - particularly as the prefix 'mal-' used to be
'male-' in Middle English (cf 'Malleus Maleficarum' - the infamous 'Hammer
of Witches'). I don't remember ever making the connection before, which
seems odd. It turns out there aren't any, so far as I can tell. Modern
English 'male' comes from the Latin 'mas' (a human male, giving us 'man' in
English) via the Old French word 'masle' (manly), which was then shortened
by the standard French method of dropping an 's' and replacing with the
circumflex ^ over the 'a' - hence 'male', entering Middle English after the
Norman Conquest. The prefix 'mal-' of course comes from the Latin 'mal'
(meaning 'bad'), which survives in Modern French - as in 'mal de mer'
(sea-sickness).

Sorry, got a bit distracted...