Re: Bad idea: Punishing false accusers

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:23:59 +0000, Daran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>On 24 Nov 2003 01:52:01 -0800 Kate Orman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
>message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>
>> Rich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>> 
>>> There is no such rate, no one counts false rape accusations, they
>>> are not even against the law as such.
>> 
>> Rich, could you explain something?
>
>[Snip lengthy list of charges actually or potentially laid on alleged
>false accusers]
>
>> Each of these quotes comes from a news item posted to talk.rape 
>> during the last week (you can easily check them for yourself using 
>> Google).
>> 
>> If it's not against the law to make a false report to the police, then 
>> how are these charges being laid?
>
>Rich did not say that.  His words are quoted top, and I tend to agree with
>them.  Rich did not say that no crime is committed by a person when they
>make a false accusation.  He is saying that the false accusation element of
>the act is not recognised in any of the charges available.  (His use of the
>phrase 'as such' indicates his intent here.) A malicious false accusation is
>the abuse of the reporting process *in order to attack someone*.  All of the
>charges you cite fail to recognise this attack.  If I were violently to
>assault you with a police parking bollard, and the only thing I were charged
>with is 'misuse of police property', then I think you would agree that the
>charge missed the point.  If that were the only thing I *could* be charged
>with, then the violent assault *as such* would not be against the law.

Somehow I did not think my point so unclear, and it's been made thousands
of times here in the past by others. I don't understand *why* this is an
issue at all.

>Where I part company from Rich, is his denial of the relevance of mens rea
>on the part of the complainant.

When a woman files a complaint for something that did not happen, I don't
see how you can deny mens rea. It's a given for any and all false rape
complaints Daran, whether someone is named or not. It's a lie, a deliberate
conscious thing.

>He is entitled to express an unorthodox opinion, of course, 

Yours is not only unorthodox, but incomprehensible. Perhaps you can
explain how someone can knowingly lie without a guilty mind.

>but it is objectionable that he routinely
>(mis)represents the position of his opponents,

I quote then Daran. I find it odd that others misrepresent their own
stances. You for example have never objected to feminist sexism and
hate. Even in the posts where you claim to have done so. Few do, but
I have no idea *why* you lie about it in your vendetta against those
who do (unlike you) actually object to feminist sexism and hate.
Perhaps you can explain this.

>so as to deny that *they* do.

Say what?

Rich

>> Yours,
>> - Kate Orman