Re: "smoked salmon socialists"

Rat & Swan wrote:
> Jonathan Ball wrote:
>
>
> <snip>
>
> > You need to be careful.  Not everyone who criticizes what a country is 
> > *doing* is being unpatriotic.
>
>
> How true....
>
>
> > However, extreme leftists like the loony "aras" - none worse than 
> > 'Rat' - hate everything their country *is*. 
>
>
> No, jonnie.

Yes.  I am well acquainted with people who offer 
honest, to-the-point criticism of specific things the 
U.S. *does*.  I am also quite well acquainted with you, 
whom I have observed over several years to be possessed 
of a knee-jerk hatred for everything the U.S. *is*.

> Most of the strong liberal and left Americans I've
> read and talked with don't hate what their country is 

You do.  You can't really deny it.  You pretend to deny 
it, but everyone who has more than passing familiarity 
with you knows you to be an extremist 
leftist/collectivist who hates everything about the U.S.

> -- or at least not what their country could be.

Yes, I knew it wouldn't be long before your weak dodge 
emerged.  It's a joke of course.  You have everything 
the U.S. *is*, and you want it to be something else. 
You want it to be a leftist tyranny, in which your view 
will be rammed down the throats of everyone, by force.

It was even easier to get you to admit it than I thought.

> Most of us grew up as patriots -- I know I did

Sure.

> -- fed on the idea that America was indeed
> supposed to stand for or advance freedom, respect for others, and
> so on.  The problem is when we began learning about all the ways
> our government and groups of Americans have betrayed, and still
> betray, those ideals.  It is the thwarted affection of someone who
> sees someone he once respected turn into a hypocritical and greedy
> bully.

You are the one who changed, not the U.S.  The U.S. 
does not traditionally produce people who contain, all 
in one rotten vessel:

- "animal rights" beliefs
- extreme leftist beliefs
- lesbianism
- support for predatory pedophiles
- belief that the 9/11 terrorist attacks were
  perpetrated by the U.S. government

and on an on.

You changed.  You developed into an anti-patriot.