Re: The death penalty legitimizes murder

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (under_the_bridge) wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> "Wax Eagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (under_the_bridge) wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> > > If it is okay to murder a murderer, then it is okay to murder.
> > >
> > > Hence we still have war and murder in the world, and would do better
> > > to listen to Jesus who told us to "love our enemies."*
> >
> > Yes, but we have to remember that the world is still under the law of
> > God. Thus meaning that the penalties given by God are still in effect.
> > When someone breaks the law they are subjects to teh penalties of law.
> > God himself said when speaking of punishment "An eye for an eye and a
> > tooth for a tooth."
> 
> Well it shows how much you know!
> 
> You are so full of shit that it's not even funny!!

GENESIS 9:6
  6    Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for
 in the image of God made he man.

nocodemus
> 
> Maybe you should have read a few lines higher than the portion I just
> quoted:
> 
> Also from Matt chapter 5,
> Jesus says...........
> 
> Go the Second Mile
> 38 "You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth
> for a tooth.' 39But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But
> whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
> 40If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have
> your cloak also. 41And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him
> two. 42Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from
> you do not turn away.
> 
> 
> Jesus's statement in the sermon on the mount was
> > refering to a false teaching amoung the pharasees that anyone could
> > take this principle into their own hands and inflict injuries to
> > anohter.
> 
> Jesus' statement means exactly what it says!  Too bad nearly no one
> listens to him!!
> 
> > However God created a Judicial system in Isreal,
> 
> MAN created a judicial system in Israel you nitwit!
> 
> 
> and it was
> > the model for the American Judicial system
> 
> 
> which Israel are you speaking of.  Common Law had it's evolution in
> Britain I believe.   It drew on different sources.  Like the Greeks,
> don't forget about them!!
> 
> 
> (Dueteronomy was the most
> > quoted book at teh Constitutional convention, something like 1000
> > times).
> 
> 
> why would you hold onto a three thousand year old religion which
> obviously hasn't served it's people well?
> 
> i.e. The Jews have been persecuted everywhere they go.  Maybe it's
> time they gave up the b.s. and did some real open-minded searching. 
> Jesus came for a reason.  He got the Jews who followed him back on
> track, and added some excellent teachings.  That's not to say the
> Gospels are the end of it, as we read in John 16:12
> 
> Jesus says.......
> 
> 12"I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them
> now. 13However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide
> you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but
> whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
> 14He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it
> to you. 15All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said
> that He will take of Mine and declare it to you."
> 
> 
> SEEK FOR AND FIND THE SPRIT OF TRUTH AND ALL LIFE WHICH DWELETH IN ALL
> LIVING THINGS.
> 
> 
> Jesus is just on guy who points the way.  Moses told you to murder
> each other for picking up sticks in the Sabbath, in Numbers (the book
> of Moses just before Deuteronomy) Moses wrote:
> 
> Numbers 15
> Penalty for Violating the Sabbath
> 32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found
> a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33And those who found him
> gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the
> congregation. 34They put him under guard, because it had not been
> explained what should be done to him. 35Then the LORD said to Moses,
> "The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone
> him with stones outside the camp." 36So, as the LORD commanded Moses,
> all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with
> stones, and he died.
> 
> pretty scary stuff.  Moses worked evil "miracles" against the
> Egyptians to free the Jews from slavery.  His teachings about the 'One
> God' might have gotten the Jewish children out of idolatry.  But
> that's merely a beginning.  The Hebrews of 3200 years ago were so far
> off track that they had to suffer with a crackpot like Moses, who
> wrote all sorts of weird (and now outdated) laws (do you keep kosher?
> - why?) but it's only a beginning.  Like I have said: fight for
> freedom and self defense.  Otherwise try to learn forgiveness and
> nonviolence.   If you don't resist evil, it may have no power over
> you!  I'm a new teacher if you will.  A new Moses.  You should all
> follow me!  Maybe working miracles (good or evil) is a prereque, but
> my guess is that if you're honest none of you believe Moses even
> worked those miracles anyway!
> 
> Do ya?
> 
> 
> > > (because neither murder,  nor murder murder - our new term for the
> > > death "penalty" is okay)
> > >
> > > - Of course, tell that to the victims =\  Maybe we should do it like
> > > they do in some Middle Eastern countries where the a relative of the
> > > victim has a choice to blow the murderer away or set him free.
> > >
> > > Of course, the death penalty is the least of our worries.  It is
> > > merely a symptom of the criminal culture which grips America.  We need
> > > to eliminate crime.  My recomendation is to give criminals the option
> > > of parole earlier, while at the same time tightening parole standards.
> > > This gives the criminals a bigger incentive to improve in prison
> > > whille at the same time keeping those who do not improve in prison.
> > > Meanwhile we must increase funding for EDUCATION both inside and
> > > outside of prisons, and teach criminals to learn trades in prison.
> > > Meanwhile we need to handle the drug problem differently, we need to
> > > test drug legalization with zero advertising, with regulation,
> > > restrictions, and information contained with the drugs, and heavily
> > > heavily increase funding for drug rehabilitation, and impress upon
> > > people that life is difficult enough without a drug habit, and impress
> > > upon our enemies abroad that the earth is impoverished enough without
> > > war.  At the same way, we need to eliminate all advertising for
> > > alcohol and cigarettes (if there is _not_ a free speech issue) as both
> > > are truly gateway drugs.
> > >
> > I think you have hit the nail on the head. The problem wiht society is
> > not the penalties that we have, but the problem with society lies in
> > the fact that people are sinful.
> > >
> > > *Matt 5 Jesus says.............
> > > Love Your Enemies
> > > (6) 43 "You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor
> > > and hate your enemy.' 44But I say to you, love your enemies, bless
> > > those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those
> > > who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45that you may be sons of
> > > your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on
> > > the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if you
> > > love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax
> > > collectors do the same? 47And if you greet your brethren only, what do
> > > you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?
> > > 48Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is
> > > perfect.
> >
> > God is definately merciful. But remember his justice as well. "For the
> > wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through
> > Jesus Christ out Lord" Romans 8:28.
> 
> 
> Are you Jewish or Christian.  At least we agree on something.  The
> wages of sin is death!  That's why so many people die.

GENESIS 9:6
  6    Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed:
 for in the image of God made he man.

nocodemus