Re: The death penalty legitimizes murder

"Wax Eagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (under_the_bridge) wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> > If it is okay to murder a murderer, then it is okay to murder.
> >
> > Hence we still have war and murder in the world, and would do better
> > to listen to Jesus who told us to "love our enemies."*
>
> Yes, but we have to remember that the world is still under the law of
> God. Thus meaning that the penalties given by God are still in effect.
> When someone breaks the law they are subjects to teh penalties of law.
> God himself said when speaking of punishment "An eye for an eye and a
> tooth for a tooth."

Well it shows how much you know!

You are so full of shit that it's not even funny!!

Maybe you should have read a few lines higher than the portion I just
quoted:

Also from Matt chapter 5,
Jesus says...........

Go the Second Mile
38 "You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth
for a tooth.' 39But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But
whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
40If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have
your cloak also. 41And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him
two. 42Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from
you do not turn away.


Jesus's statement in the sermon on the mount was
> refering to a false teaching amoung the pharasees that anyone could
> take this principle into their own hands and inflict injuries to
> anohter.

Jesus' statement means exactly what it says!  Too bad nearly no one
listens to him!!

> However God created a Judicial system in Isreal,

MAN created a judicial system in Israel you nitwit!


and it was
> the model for the American Judicial system


which Israel are you speaking of.  Common Law had it's evolution in
Britain I believe.   It drew on different sources.  Like the Greeks,
don't forget about them!!


(Dueteronomy was the most
> quoted book at teh Constitutional convention, something like 1000
> times).


why would you hold onto a three thousand year old religion which
obviously hasn't served it's people well?

i.e. The Jews have been persecuted everywhere they go.  Maybe it's
time they gave up the b.s. and did some real open-minded searching. 
Jesus came for a reason.  He got the Jews who followed him back on
track, and added some excellent teachings.  That's not to say the
Gospels are the end of it, as we read in John 16:12

Jesus says.......

12"I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them
now. 13However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide
you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but
whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
14He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it
to you. 15All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said
that He will take of Mine and declare it to you."


SEEK FOR AND FIND THE SPRIT OF TRUTH AND ALL LIFE WHICH DWELETH IN ALL
LIVING THINGS.


Jesus is just on guy who points the way.  Moses told you to murder
each other for picking up sticks in the Sabbath, in Numbers (the book
of Moses just before Deuteronomy) Moses wrote:

Numbers 15
Penalty for Violating the Sabbath
32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found
a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33And those who found him
gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the
congregation. 34They put him under guard, because it had not been
explained what should be done to him. 35Then the LORD said to Moses,
"The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone
him with stones outside the camp." 36So, as the LORD commanded Moses,
all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with
stones, and he died.

pretty scary stuff.  Moses worked evil "miracles" against the
Egyptians to free the Jews from slavery.  His teachings about the 'One
God' might have gotten the Jewish children out of idolatry.  But
that's merely a beginning.  The Hebrews of 3200 years ago were so far
off track that they had to suffer with a crackpot like Moses, who
wrote all sorts of weird (and now outdated) laws (do you keep kosher?
- why?) but it's only a beginning.  Like I have said: fight for
freedom and self defense.  Otherwise try to learn forgiveness and
nonviolence.   If you don't resist evil, it may have no power over
you!  I'm a new teacher if you will.  A new Moses.  You should all
follow me!  Maybe working miracles (good or evil) is a prereque, but
my guess is that if you're honest none of you believe Moses even
worked those miracles anyway!

Do ya?


> > (because neither murder,  nor murder murder - our new term for the
> > death "penalty" is okay)
> >
> > - Of course, tell that to the victims =\  Maybe we should do it like
> > they do in some Middle Eastern countries where the a relative of the
> > victim has a choice to blow the murderer away or set him free.
> >
> > Of course, the death penalty is the least of our worries.  It is
> > merely a symptom of the criminal culture which grips America.  We need
> > to eliminate crime.  My recomendation is to give criminals the option
> > of parole earlier, while at the same time tightening parole standards.
> > This gives the criminals a bigger incentive to improve in prison
> > whille at the same time keeping those who do not improve in prison.
> > Meanwhile we must increase funding for EDUCATION both inside and
> > outside of prisons, and teach criminals to learn trades in prison.
> > Meanwhile we need to handle the drug problem differently, we need to
> > test drug legalization with zero advertising, with regulation,
> > restrictions, and information contained with the drugs, and heavily
> > heavily increase funding for drug rehabilitation, and impress upon
> > people that life is difficult enough without a drug habit, and impress
> > upon our enemies abroad that the earth is impoverished enough without
> > war.  At the same way, we need to eliminate all advertising for
> > alcohol and cigarettes (if there is _not_ a free speech issue) as both
> > are truly gateway drugs.
> >
> I think you have hit the nail on the head. The problem wiht society is
> not the penalties that we have, but the problem with society lies in
> the fact that people are sinful.
> >
> > *Matt 5 Jesus says.............
> > Love Your Enemies
> > (6) 43 "You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor
> > and hate your enemy.' 44But I say to you, love your enemies, bless
> > those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those
> > who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45that you may be sons of
> > your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on
> > the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if you
> > love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax
> > collectors do the same? 47And if you greet your brethren only, what do
> > you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?
> > 48Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is
> > perfect.
>
> God is definately merciful. But remember his justice as well. "For the
> wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through
> Jesus Christ out Lord" Romans 8:28.


Are you Jewish or Christian.  At least we agree on something.  The
wages of sin is death!  That's why so many people die.