Re: God is punishing the USA for its treatment of Palestinians via Iraq

Archimedes Plutonium wrote:

<snip>

> Ironic that the USA founding fathers wanted separation of church and
> state. How
> they wanted religion out of politics.

False.  Anyone even vaguely familiar with history would know that your
statement is false.

Numerous examples can be given:

"We were under conviction of the necessity of arousing our
people from the lethargy into which they had fallen, as to
passing events [the Boston port bill]; and thought that the
appointment of a day of general fasting and prayer would be
most likely to call up and alarm their attention.... We cooked
up a resolution ... for appointing the 1st day of June, on which
the portbill was to commence, for a day of fasting, humiliation,
and prayer, to implore Heaven to avert from us theevils of civil
war, to inspire us with firmness in support of our rights, and to
turn the hearts of the King and Parliament to moderation and justice."
(Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson :9-10
(Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1904) (Monticello edition))

Jefferson concluded his second inaugural address by asking Americans to
join
with him in prayer that the "Being in whose hands we are ... will so
enlighten the minds of your servants, guide their councils, and prosper
their measures, that whatsoever they do, shall result in your good, and
shall secure to you the peace, friendship, and approbation of all
nations."
Jefferson, Second Inaugural Address, 4 March 1805

"Far from simply granting the
governor power to appoint "days of public fasting and humiliation, or
thanksgiving," the bill included the following punitive provision: "Every

minister of the gospel shall on each day so to be appointed, attend and
perform divine service and preach a sermon, or discourse, suited to
the occasion, in his church, on pain of forfeiting fifty pounds for
every failure, not having a reasonable excuse." n81 Although the
measure was never enacted, it was sponsored by Madison, and a
surviving manuscript copy of the bill bears a notation in the "clerk's
hand" indicating that it was "endorsed" by Jefferson."
(Constitutional Commentary Winter, 1999
16 Const. Commentary 627
ARTICLE: WHAT THE WALL SEPARATES: A DEBATE
ON THOMAS JEFFERSON'S "WALL OF SEPARATION" METAPHOR
Daniel L. Dreisbach, John D. Whaley)

The Founders said the exact opposite of what you just said.  They
supported having a "public religion."  In contrast, the notion that the
state must be an establishment of atheim and agnosticism that must
discriminate against believers and separate the "Jewish influence" of
"ethical code worship" from public life, courts and the law is a fascist
notion.

"James Madison wanted to have military chaplains
exhorting and comforting soldiers, although he did not
want the government to endorse a particular denomination
by paying one of its ministers.  John Adams wrote to
his wife that religion and morality were the foundations
of freedom and that a patriot had to be a religious man.
......
Thus, the Revolution and the Constitution were based
on a religiously informed common good, albeit one with
less ecclesiastical specificity than would occur in a country
with an established church.  The founders recognized the necessity
of the common good. But, it was a public religion rather than
a religion emanating from an established church.
A "publick religion" (Benjamin Franklin's term) shares a value system
beyond particular denominations:
' [A] kind of nonestablished religious culture unencumbered by
sectarianism and superstition and dedicated at the same time to
freedom and the common weal. Public religion, therefore, was the
expression of "enlightened" religious values which are widely shared
among citizens of the republic. Its theological and doctrinal content
was thin: belief in God, the need to do good, immortality,
and rewards and punishments.'"
(American Business Law Journal Spring, 1999
36 Am. Bus. L.J. 391
ARTICLE: THE FIRST MAN AND THE COMPANY
MAN: THE COMMON GOOD, TRANSCENDENCE,
AND MEDIATING INSTITUTIONS
By TIMOTHY L. FORT)

It is possible to go on with numerous historical examples of what the
Founders actually said.

> Yet the USA fascination and
> attraction to
> Judaism to the point where 142 countries are against the Israel and
> USA partnership. Why are we siding with Israel even when they commit
> evil?

How can you call something a religious concept such as "evil" and claim
that this notion ought to have something to do with state action all the
while maintaining the typical position of atheistic totalitarians that
there is to be a "separation" of religion and politics?

> Well, God is going to straighten out not only the USA but also Israel
> for
> we now have Vietnam repeated.

Your vast ignorance of history is demonstrated throughout your
positions.  One can't help but be reminded by some of your arguments of
the situation in which the pope signed a concordat with the Nazis to have
a separation of church and state.  And then there is the notion that
world-wide anti-Semitism is somehow an excuse to leave Jews to their
killers.

It seems that these ideas are not new.  Not that you would know, because
you are ignorant.
--
--W
http://religionandpolitics.web1000.com/