Re: Take Back Your Time Day

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (G*rd*n):
> > > > > I've made the same argument myself, but against the
> > > > > proposition that such differentials _prove_ the superiority
> > > > > of capitalism.  I'm not claiming a proof, just a persuasive
> > > > > correlation.  I'll let the cap fans argue this with you from
> > > > > here on; there are enough of them to allow me to spare
> > > > > myself the task.

Constantinople wrote:
> > > > It seems as though infant mortality rate is a stand-in for the general
> > > > quality of life, and in that case, it seems as though tg is arguing that
> > > > there is not the slightest bit of empirical evidence that capitalism is
> > > > even one tiny little bit better than a command economy at making human life
> > > > even a tiny fraction of a bit better. That seems to be his point, anyway.
> > > > And it's just so way out that I don't really see the point in responding.

test5253 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > no. "you people" seem to say that capitalism is one thing that gives the
> > > same advantageous situation for every nation but it does no such thing.
> > > ...

G*rd*n wrote:
> > Either median infant mortality dropped during the rise of
> > capitalism, or it didn't.  If it did, then capitalism fans
> > can argue that that was due to the rise of capitalism.  A
> > quick end to the argument would be to show that infant
> > mortality remained the same or increased.
> >
> > If cap fans want to argue that capitalism is advantageous for
> > every nation they will have to go quite a bit further: define
> > "advantageous" and show that such conditions are produced
> > everywhere by the operations of capitalism.  Some cases will be
> > difficult, such as the statistics coming out of Russia in the
> > 1990s.  The proposition above is far more limited.

test5254 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> as if inventions and all human activity could be labeled capitalist
> just because the system in some contries in the us and europe
> were capitalist. great.
>
> fishermen would have to fish regardless of
> the political system in the US.
>
> get it?


Fishing is a highly technologized industry which one might
say had become post-capitalist and post-socialist.  That is,
the methods have become so efficient that most fisheries are
now depleted due to being over-worked.  The further application
of technological advances, like say an improvement in the sonar
equipment which locates schools of fish, will probably result
in a _decline_ of general production.  However, I think this is
a fairly recent development, one of the many which throw the
whole impetus of previous capitalist-socialist industrial
development into question, generally gathered under the heading
of ecology or environmentalism.

If elites can't maintain their power by increasing production,
they are confronted with a considerable dilemma: to retain
their power, they must find some other value purveyable to the
masses to substitute for getting more and better stuff all
the time.  In the United States it appears that, for at least
a majority of the population, imperialism, war and repression
have become acceptable substitutes.  But I digress.

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