Re: THE PARTY'S OVER: Oil, War, and the Fate of Industrial Societies

Thanks Mark for your intelligent response, making it unnecessary
for us to post to make most of the same points. We would only
add a few things, such as, massive use of Coal would be an 
environmental disaster, and even cleaner" coal would be a CO2 problem.
Nuclear waste has been a disaster, unfunded superfunds, no
one wants it, contamination lasts for millennia, and we
haven't even spoken about terrorism yet.

Market forces are far too slow...by the time market
signals begin to take more serious account, it'll be too
late. In fact, it's already too late in the following sense:
we already don't have enough time to ramp up alternatives
at a rate fast enough to make up for the oil sortfalls,
and continue our high-energy lifestyle. What we do have
enough time for is if we ramp up the alternatives
and at the same time move to a lower energy mode. ..
and by the way more local based, and more communitarian
and more enjoyable and fulfilling lifestyle. I'm not
talking about us all becomign farmers, I'm talking about you
get your food locally, fresh, organic, from friendly
small business folks you know, not GMO modified,
chemicadlized food from 1000s of miles away that's half
stale by the time it reaches your supermarket and they
use artificial means to keep the tomatoes
red and the other veggies looking "fresh" without 
really being fresh

Much more is here: http://www.PostCarbon.org and
see "when markets fail:..." which is text
as well as other video and audio offerings there...

ED

Warren Stupidity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 03:43:14 GMT, "Iconoclast" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> 
> >
> >"Economic Democracy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> "Richard Heinberg has written an outstanding book, The Party's Over
> >> ..The world and the U.S. populations are projected to double in 50 and
> >> 70 years, respectively, and global oil supplies are projected to be
> >> mostly depleted in 50 years! [Worse, oil production will peak sometime
> >> between 2006 and 2015] I agree with Heinberg that
> >> society is headed for serious trouble in the near future."  --David
> >> Pimentel, Ph.D., Professor, Department of Entomology, Systematics AND
> >> Ecology, Cornell University
> >>
> >> "The Party's Over begins with a commanding review of world history,
> >> where past and current developments including war, empire, and
> >> population growth are interpreted as functions of cheap or
> >> increasingly scarce and expensive energy. The discussion of
> >> substitutes for fast-depleting fossil fuels, and the formidable
> >> impediments to making the transition that would allow industrial
> >> civilization to continue, are important to every investor and
> >> citizen."- Virginia Deane Abernethy, Ph.D., author of Population Politics
> >>
> >> http://www.museletter.com/partys-over.html
> >>Snip....
> >
> >Pure nonsense. Fossil fuels are no where near running out and the biggest
> >one of them all hasn't even begun to be tapped yet. It's true that oil
> >production is on its downslope but given all of the problems oil creates
> >including war, it's probably a good thing that we divest ourselves of its
> >use.  The faster it runs out the better.
> 
> "Fossil fuels are no where near running out" and "it's true that oil
> production is on its downslope" would appear to contradictory
> statements.
> 
> It isn't that we are going to suddenly run out of oil tomorrow, or ten
> years from now. The problem is that demand is starting to exceed
> supply of oil, even when new resources are brought online. As prices
> rise, the global economy tips into recession, somewhat lowering
> demand, but soon thereafter the recession ends, demand picks up, and
> once again we see the inexorable rise in prices. We tilt back and
> forth these days between sudden sharp price increase and modest
> rollbacks. Yet the trend is that demand increases and capacity
> (supply) does not keep up. As we tip into a permanent shortage
> situation the 'party' the essentially free ride that the global
> economy has taken on what was considered an infinite supply of cheap
> energy will indeed be over. Global conflicts and economic dislocation
> are inevitable, and we are seeing that pattern right now.
> 
> > There are many alternatives to oil,
> >wind solar and bio-mass even nuclear to name a few. These will never be
> >fully developed until oil is not as readily available as it is today.
> 
> That would be too late. The interim period is likely to make the
> events of the 30's and 40's look like a picnic. We are in the early
> days of that interim period. The oil wars have started. Our leaders
> have stuck their collective heads in the sands of saudi arabia and
> simply wished the problem away, when for 40 years they have known
> exactly what the future had in store. T
> 
> 
> The Washington NeoClowns can't even get their clown 
> shoes on right, and there is no wrong way to do that.
> 
> ==
> Mark Roddy
> 
> "Further, the process of transformation,
> even if it brings revolutionary change, is
> likely to be a long one, absent some
> catastrophic and catalyzing event like a
> new Pearl Harbor."
> 
> -- Project for a New American Century,
> -- the neocon cabal's blueprint for world empire.
> http://www.newamericancentury.org