Re: Graduated National Health Plan Needed

"Gretchen Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:27:21 -0400, "Karl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Bettina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jonathan Smith) wrote in message
> >news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> >> > Gretchen Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> >> > > On 20 Oct 2003 08:10:37 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jonathan
> >> > > Smith) wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bettina) wrote in message
> >news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> >> > > >> > "Karl" said: <>
> >> > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > If it was as cut and dried as you make it
out
> >JS this issue wouldn't have the political life to linger as long as it
has.
> >> > > >> > > >
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> And THAT is what this all boils down to. Data and tables and
> >> > > >> statistics and links are not the only path to the truth
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Not the only - but it takes the emotion and the subjectivity out
of
> >> > > >it.  Do you really want decisions about your health care made
based
> >on
> >> > > >good information or someones intuition?
> >> > > >
> >> > > >> and they
> >> > > >> certainly do not inspire major political change. Like it or not,
> >human
> >> > > >> beings make choices based on not just their left brains but
their
> >> > > >> feelings and experiences,  which is why the issue of universal
> >> > > >> coverage is not going to go away. (js, since you're obsessed
with
> >> > > >> definitions and subsets, single payer is a subset of UC, okay?)
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Absolutely - SP is a subset of UC - Just like  a Staff Model HMO
> >> > > >(Kaiser)is a subset of managed care.  But we all know that a staff
> >> > > >model HMO is UNIQUE (right Pixie?) - hence I claim the SP is also
> >> > > >UNIQUE.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >If you want to suggest that all SP are UC - fine, but you need to
> >also
> >> > > >understand that not all UC is SP.  In fact, few UC are SP and
neither
> >> > > >you nor pixie has gotten to the holy grail - an SP that actually
> >> > > >works.  Got a few great examples of UC that work - Kaiser,
> >> > > >Germany...but not a one in the SP category.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >You two want SP but are having so much trouble defining it, makes
one
> >> > > >think you'd never even come close to implementing it.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >js
> >> > >
> >> > > I have absolutely no problems at all in 'defining' "SP", or "UC",
for
> >> > > that matter.
> >> >
> >> > Yes, you do Pixie.
> >> >
> >> > > The problem obviously arises from your inability to
> >> > > understand those definitions.. or accept them.
> >> >
> >> > When your definitions move in the wind, it's tough for me to keep up.
> >> >
> >> > So, are UC and SP the same or differnt todfay?  What's the
difference?
> >> >
> >> > js
> >>
> >> I suspect you're trying to get Pixie to pin down an ironclad
> >> definition of  SP and UC so you can say "gotcha!"  about some fine
> >> point in her definition. There is no ironclad definition of the
> >> details, there is just the principle that health care should be
> >> publicly financed (and privately delivered), and implementation will
> >> be slowly developed and tweaked and tweaked again.
> >> Bettina
> >
> >In his eyes there is only one SP system the  NHS. And that he is claiming
is
> >being abolished in favor of a totally private system.
> >
>
> Which is untrue, of course, but he won't accept that fact.
>
> pixie

I know.  He posted a snippet that mentioned 'reforms' but what system...any
system...hell the OS you are probably using right now Windows XP has not HAD
to 'reformed' , 'fixed', or adapted to fit a constantly changing
environment.

What Windows XP has been updated like 47 times this year?  Does this mean
Windows XP is failure?  Hardly, Bill Gates and the good ole boys from
Redmond will tell you their OSes are just fine and dandy and I agree with
them!

As with the NHS.  Now I don't know diddly about the NHS other than what I
read about it or hear about.  But changing the way it works is not the same
as abolishing it.  JS needs to get aquainted with a dictionary.