Re: The 2ed Amendment as a Gun Nuts Wet Dream

Scout wrote:
> 
> "Roger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > "David Lentz" <dlentz10@/*NOSPAM*/rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> > > Roger wrote:
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > > It seems almost unfair to pick on the historically challenged.
> > > >
> > > > There is no individual right to keep and bear arms. Look at the court
> > > > decisions. Look at the law. If there was such a right, the gun control
> > laws
> > > > on the books would have been overturned. They have not.
> > >
> > > The right to keep and bear arms existed, and was utilized, on
> > > April `9, 1775.  It was reaffirmed the next year in the
> > > Declaration of Independence.   If you deny the right to keep and
> > > bear arms, I such you swear your allegiance to your Queen.
> >
> > There is no individual right to keep and bear arms. Look at the court
> > decisions. Look at the law.
> 
> Speaking of the Law....
> 
> A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state,
> the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

YOU left out some commas, two of them. Can't you do anything
right?
 
> Sorry, looks like there is an individual right to keep and bear arms,

Nope, Sorry Snout, that's just YOUR blatant assertion based on
nothing but your unsubstantiated opinion; there's nothing there
that speaks of individuals at all! You just make it up out of
thin air! 

IF you knew what the words meant, you wouldn't be making such
silly remarks; but as you are an ignorant buffoon, you blithely
make loopy claims you never bother to substantiate.

Since "THE PEOPLE" ONLY refers, in the Const, to the
enfranchised body politic in its political and collective
capacity, there's no reason to believe it refers to each and
every individual. Since "bear arms" was used by Madison AND the
first Congress ONLY to mean "to render military service in
person," it refers to the collective enterprise known as the
militia (there are NO one-man militias!)

THE PEOPLE have the right to keep and bear arms. This refers to
SEVERAL rights.

THE COLLECTIVE or COMMUNITARIAN right is that the EBP can
democratically organize, control, arm and maintain the readiness
and upkeep of the state's militia or military function; this
right is NOT fully distributive (does any one individual "keep"
all the inventory of the WHOLE militia, or can any one
militiaman decide unilaterally to "bear arms" against the
neighboring state?).

THE INDIVIDUAL RIGHT (other than the conscientious objector
right Madison sought) is that EACH qualified MEMBER of the
PEOPLE CLASS who is drawn from the "body of the PEOPLE" and thus
is IN the militia, may serve in the militia and may keep HIS
personal militia weapons at home, if desired. Also, an
individual member of the PEOPLE class, whether in the militia or
not, may participate in the COLLECTIVE right to the extent that
he may VOTE on his civilian state reps who control the militia,
and some of his officers who run the militia, or otherwise get
more directly involved in the operation of the militia on an
administrative level. 

There's also the RIGHT of the militias to survive and be
preserved, and the right of the states to maintain those state
militias, and use them for state purposes, and appoint the
officers and administer the discipline.

THAT'S IT!

> and
> that right is protected by the law.

Nope, not that any court has affirmed. Is that why ALL laws
regulating or restricting the ownership or use of guns have been
upheld against ALL 2nd Amen claims?

-- 
Steven Krulick / [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ellenville NY 12428-130727