Re: EU Constitution, yes or no?

"J.M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ian wrote:
>
> >
> > "J.M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Anneke Andriessen wrote:
> >>
> >> > Nils Zonneveld wrote:
> >> >> Next year we get to vote on a referendum whether the Netherlands
> >> >> should approve of the proposed EU Constitution or not.
> >> >>
> >> >> I'm really in doubt. I want a more democratic EU. The proposed EU
> >> >> constitution could give more of that, but far from enough. We also
> >> >> had a stability pact for the Euro which has proven worthless. Why
> >> >> should we give consent to another set of deals if the big countries
> >> >> don't give a shit about deals when it's inconvenient to them?
> >> >>
> >> >> In the proposed constitution power still isn't fully checked by
> >> >> directly chosen representatives. To change that you'll need an
> >> >> unanimous vote of all (soon to be 25!) member states. That means it
> >> >> will be impossible to amend the constitution.
> >> >>
> >> >> At the other hand, if we vote no, we return to the present status
quo,
> >> >> which is also far from perfect.
> >> >>
> >> >> Any thoughts about it?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Nils
> >> >
> >> > There is no regulation in preventing the "headrunners" Germany France
> > and
> >> > UK to colonize in a legal sense all smaller EU countries. Now come
> >> > again where this EU constitution would not collide with national
> >> > juriprudence? Where in national constitutions does it say that in
case
> >> > of colllision with the EU
> >> > constitution the national constitution prevails?  This would be the
> >> > beginning of a democratic EU.
> >> >
> >> > Anneke
> >>
> >>
> >> Hardly. The beginning of a democratic EU would be if the EP had real
> >> power and to have clear cut responsbilities belonging to the EU and to
> >> the
> > member
> >> states. Giving the national constitutions priority over an EU
> >> constitution makes no sense as it would make the EU entirely
> >> dysfunctional. A country could simply refuse to abide by any EU
decision
> >> by adopting its national constitution appropriately, so effectively all
> >> EU rules would be suggestions, not laws. A common market or any union
can
> >> hardly work under those circumstances.
> >>
> >> Jan
> >
> >
> > LOL, how does giving more power to the EP make it more democratic?.
>
> Because the EP is elected by the people directly, i.e. by you and me? So
> when the EU makes decisions that affect all of us, I like the idea of the
> people I voted for directly having a big say.


It might be directly elected my the peoples of individual nation states, but
seeing that no one nation can have a majority in the EP its still not
democratic in my view. :) I'm not keen on a bunch of foreign elected
peoples, forcing laws on my country unless they go thorough my own country's
parliament.

If  laws from the EU go through our own democratic elected institutions then
yes its democratic, but if EU laws can bypass our own democratic
institutions then its not.


The only true democratic instituition are those already established in the
memeber countries of the EU and their the only guardians of demcracy the EU
can never be.

The less power the EU has the more democratic it is.



>
> >
> > Why doesnt each country a referendum on whether they want a country
called
> > Europe and then go from there.
>
> That is not a European issue. Any country is free to leave the EU. As long
> as a certain country, e.g. the UK, chooses to stay in the EU, the only
> question of interest is, "how are decisions made in the EU?" This should
be
> as democratic as possible, i.e. with as much EP say as possible.
>
> >
> > Being the whole EU project is to create a country called Europe why not
> > ask the people ,instead of trying to sneek it in the back door.
>
> Blame your government, not the EU. If your government is not letting you
> have your say on that matter, blame your government, not the EU.
>
> Jan


Have the people across the channel been given a choice in whether they want
a European superstate, no they havent, you seem to assume they want it.











>