Re: Way to go, Dutch - you just made Fuckwit's argument for him.

On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:35:17 -0800, "Dutch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>"ipse dixit" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
>> On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:51:46 -0800, "Dutch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> >> >At first I held the mistaken belief that vegans
>> >> >were categorically contributing to less animal
>> >> >suffering than non-vegans. I have since realized
>> >> >that was wrong.
>
>> That wasn't your only position
>
>So are you conceding that point?
>
No. That pathetic attempt at a diversion out
of the way, let's see what you snipped away
and ran from.

<unsnip evidence which proves you're lying>

That wasn't your only position, liar. You also
made strenuous efforts to argue that animals
had rights, but then you never were what you 
once claimed to be. You lied when you claimed 
to believe in animal rights and deluded yourself 
intentionally to cling to illusions.

    "I no longer cling to that illusion because it
    is impossible to support. I no longer feel the
    need invent ways to try either, which is the
    real relief."
    Dutch 16/02/2002

It's a fact that you "knowingly deluded" yourself
and lied to others when first coming here pretending
to be an ARA, and for some sad reason you also
think everyone else who expresses a belief in AR
must also be just as deluded as you ARE.

    " I did find deluding myself quite comfortable,
    after all who was it hurting?"
    Dutch 17/03/2002

    "The reason I left AR is precisely that I DON'T
    feel comfortable *knowingly* deluding myself.
    It was fine as long as I didn't realize it."
    Dutch 19/03/2002

If you look at your first statement you maintain you
invented ways to cling to illusions, and in your other
two you also maintain that you *knowingly* deluded
yourself to feel comfortable, yet you finish off by
writing, "It was fine as long as I didn't realise it."
This is clearly a lie because you did realise it. How
can anyone not realise what they are *knowingly*
doing, liar Dutch?

In fact, if you look at your sorry history here on this
group you'll see plenty of U-turns and lies you've
concerning your beliefs.

1)    "I am an animal rights believer."
        Dutch Date: 2001-02-12

But just a few months later you state;

    "They have no rights because the very idea of a
    world of animals with rights is a laugh."
    Dutch  Date: 2001-08-07

2)    "My contention is that 'animal rights' have sprouted
        like branches from the tree of "HUMAN RIGHTS".
        They are derivative. They reflect from a) what our
        own rights are b) to what degree and how we value
        the animal or species. They have become internalized
        and institutionalized like human rights."
        Dutch   Date: 2001-02-23

But later you state;

        "Humans are sentient, AND humans have rights, does
        not lead to animals are sentient THEREFORE animals
        have rights.
        Dutch  Date: 2002-07-22
<end>

It could be that you've been suffering from more
of these delusions because evidence shows that
you now accept Harrison's argument.

>> >> The quotes and admissions below prove you
>> >> believe an animal benefits from getting to
>> >> experience life and being able to reproduce after
>> >> their predators have been removed
>> >
>> >Of course they do.
>>
>> Way to go ...!!!!!!!!
>
>What does that mean?  

It shows that you do accept Harrison's argument
after all, because he also argues that animals 
benefit from getting to experience life, too, or 
hadn't you noticed?
>> >
>> >> by our moral consideration toward them
>> >
>> >That's a lie, I said it was our actions, not moral consideration, towards
>> >predators that benefitted the deer.
>> >
>> I have your quote that you just snipped away,
>> proving it, liar Dutch.
>> "I have said this is a "moral consideration" issue."
>> Dutch 2003-11-28
>
>I told you that was a typo.
>
The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it
Omar Khayyam