Re: Call To Ban All Fishing In 1/3 Of World's Seas

"usual suspect" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Zakhar wrote:
> >>Those aren't tiny crates. The animals have plenty of room and it looks
> >>like plenty of feed. They also have some interaction with other animals.
> >
> > Interaction? With what?
>
> With other animals.

No evidence of that.

>
> > I accept that tiny is a relative term, but what the hell would you call
> > tiny?
>
> Anything forbidding freedom of movement, which is the broad charge
> leveled by ARAs despite the fact that very few veal producers use such
> tiny crates.

A fence forbids movement.

>
> >>These are typical veal calf conditions according to the AR terrorists
> >>and propagandists:
> >>http://tinyurl.com/lvqv
> >>http://tinyurl.com/lvr1
> >
> > They are the sort of crates being used in Europe. In fact, it looks like
> > they're still being used in the US.
>
> Not on a wide-scale, if at all.

Have you the evidence for that claim?

>
> > Try this:
> >
> > http://www.noveal.org/wi_photos.htm
>
> "Recent" is as relative as "tiny." There's no date on the page. That's
> consistent with other ARA claims and materials showing the tiny wooden
> crates in all their current literature. Why would groups resort to
> showing conditions used 30 years ago when the industry has made
> significant changes?
>
> > http://www.vegetarianimage.com/Photos.htm
>
> No cramped cages there.

Are you blind?

>
> >>>http://tinyurl.com/lvod
> >>
> >> From the article itself, we find that this is a picture (one of four in
> >>the article itself) of study conditions. Here's the link. You can find
> >>out what was being studied yourself:
> >>http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/newsletters/v7n3/7n3morro.htm
> >>
> >>Try to be a little less shady with sources next time.
> >
> > Not shady. I posted as PICTURES of tiny crates, not a full study.
>
> The STUDY was entitled "Environmental Enrichment of Dairy Calves and
> Pigs." The STUDY looked at behaviors in relation to items put in the
> pens to stimulate the calves as well as biological responses (e.g.,
> immunological) of calves that had more stimuli. It's more than
> disingenuous of you to paste in a picture and suggest it represents
> *industry* standards when in fact it's from a *limited* study.
>
> >>>http://tinyurl.com/lvoh
> >>
> >>How about a link to the full story? Hard to trace it back with a link to
> >>one image, especially when the directory listing is denied.
> >
> > http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/72540_dairy30.shtml
>
> Caption from picture: "Larry Stap, a dairy farmer in Lynden, Whatcom
> County, moves a calf from the hutch where SHE spent her first two months
> TO A PEN WITH OTHER CALVES" (my emphasis). Note that she's not being
> raised for veal. She's going into dairy production.
>
> >>>http://www.osseoplastics.com/hutches.htm
> >>
> >>What's wrong with that? It's not a darkened, teeny-tiny wooden crate
> >>like AR terrorists and propagandists claim.
> >
> > It's designed to be used inside. It's a tiny PLASTIC crate.
>
> Not tiny.

You're slightly mad.

>
> >>>>Bullshit. The fishing industry wants sustainability and profits. What
> >>>>good is a profit today if there's no chance of one tomorrow? That's
why
> >>>>the fishing industry is working for sustainable practices.
> >>>
> >>>Crap. Some fishermen what sustainability. Some what whatever they can
> >
> > get.
> >
> >>ALL fishermen want sustainability. Why would they be in and remain in an
> >>industry, making large investments in capital (boats, nets, etc.) and
> >>labor, if they faced *no* future in it?
> >
> > They invest in more capital to catch what *remains* of the fish stocks.
To
> > maintain their income in the face of a dwindling fish population.
>
> That makes no sense, Zakhar. Not economically, not rationally, not in
> any manner.

Good -  you're learning.

>