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HOWEDY SGF,
"SGF" <pamlico_test@(nospam)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> We just adapted a half boxer half great dane mix.
Oh goody! tara o. is affiliated with boxer rescue.
She'll teach you HOWE to KILL the Boxer half...
> He's about 1 or 2 yrs. old and his history isn't the prettiest.
> From what we know he was at a minimum neglected including
> starved and exposed to the elements.
That's irrelevant.
> His vet appointments are already set up to deal with
> some of these issues and for more shots and neutering.
BEWAAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
Neutering for WHAAAAT? To make IT healthier? To control
roaming? To avoid accidental breeding with your brood bitches?
WHAAAAT???
You're gonna mutilate your dog cause some lying dog abusing
Punk Thug Coward tells you to? Or so you can support the vet's
family vacation, summer camp, and college educations?
WHAAAAAT???
> We are experienced dog owners (not experts) and did our
> homework prior to bringing him home. I'd like more input
> on the issue of marking territory,
Marking is an anxiety behavior, very seldom is it sexual.
> so I have all the bases covered
You won't be gettin no information from HOWER dog
lovers, they're still debating the benefits of the slip
choke collar Vs the pronged spiked pinch choke collar
Vs the Gl NECK BREAKER, Vs the shock collar, Vs
aversive sprays, crate, tethering and tie dHOWENS.
> when the big moment comes and he is allowed
> unsupervised run of the house.
You'll have him in PERFECT CONTROL in abHOWET WON
HOWER, if you follow the proven effective gentle FAST EZ
FREE scientific and psychological techniques taught in The
Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual.
> When we got him home last night we let him examine the
> yard freely and toured the workshop and house with him
> on a leash.
Good.
> He only exhibited behavior one time that looked like he was
> preparing to mark indoors.
HOWEsbreaking is INSTINCTIVE. Only a dog trainer could
confHOWEND that.
> He stopped after a mild correction of "no".
You mean, you taught him HOWE to command 100% of your
univided attention and reinforced the behavior. Any time the
dog can stop you dead in your tracks and make you pay him
all your attention, he's learned HOWE to control you.
> We have no other dogs but the scent of my son's dog is about,
> since they recently stayed with us. We have cats that are
comfortable
> with dogs. He has been great with them so far.
HOWER dog lovers prefer to allHOWE their kats to intimidate
their dogs to train them...and let their dogs fight for alpha
status.
> I'd be interested in any additional thoughts and ideas about
> making a smooth transition to him accepting the whole house
> as a no pee zone.
HOWER dogs lovers will tell you to constantly supervise
and lock IT in a box.
> thanks
Have you been readin HOWER forum?
> SGF
This is who you're askin for heelp:
Here's some of the dangerHOWES screwballs, liars,
dog abusers, and cowards The Puppy Wizard is busy
EXXXPOSING far beyond the limits any ordinary person
could tolerate:
> I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
> beautiful labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe
> you'd be singing a different tune?
"Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and
put their bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer
for the trash company to come and dispose of.
No different tune," ~Emily
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered
as assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter
for a while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and
unwanted animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute
to that problem," Mustang Sally.
> lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
> For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
> pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
> When he barks, use the line for a correction.
>
>>- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
>>
>>Lynn K.
>
> ================
>
>>lynn kosmakos (Lithium, Zoloft, bipolar, manic,
>> depression) will "put down a biter
>> as fast as anyone" yet claims to
>> be a saintly dog rescuer
>
>>Lynn K. wrote:
>>
>>"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
>>one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
>>schedules and duties causes a great deal of
>>scheduling overhead.
>>
>>And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
>>volunteers get the meaningful experience that
>>they work for.
>>
>>Someone has to be responsible for that
>>Volunteer Program, and it is best done
>>by a non-volunteer."
>>
>>Lynn K.
>>---------------------------------
>>
>>"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
>>every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
>>effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
>>older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
>>
>>Should I have refused to groom them?
>>
>>Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
>>had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
>>
>>Lynn K.
>>--------------------------------------
Are those MENTAL CASES, or NOT? Here's MOORE:
Can you tell the TRUTH from a LIE?:
> > > Jerome Bigge writes:
> > > I do know that hitting, hurting
> > > your dog will often make the
> > > dog either aggressive or a fear
> > > biter, neither of which we want to do.
And then we got, matty! Follow his discussion!
This is what's called, a liar and dog abuser:
> > And neither does anyone else,
> > Jerome. No matter
> > what Jerry Howe states.
"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This I've Suggested It To Quite
A Few Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY
TIME The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer,
33 Years Experience.
You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for her coment above
regarding her success with The Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy
Separation Anxiety / Bed Time Calming Technique (STSA/BTCT)?
Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z, who commented
that his bed time calming technique was quite similar?
> > You're scary Marilyn.
> > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed
> > individual. I feel very sorry for her
> > and her family.
"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.
> > BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> > doubt, please provide a quote (an
> > original quote, not from one of Jerry
> > Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> > shows a regular poster promoting or
> > using an abusive form of training.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."
You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING
is COURTEOUS?
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?"
Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude.
"When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time, spray
one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk away. The dog
won't be too thrilled with this but just ignore him and continue
your normal behavior."
You think HURTING your dog is NORMAL BEHAVIOR?
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"Courteous Canines"
You think HOWER pal mikey is playin with a full deck?
Yeah. When I preload my dog's mouth with bitter apple,
suppose I don't get used to being stupid and cruel, mikey?
Then HOWE do I train my dog if I can't HURT it?
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm Over The Lab's
Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My Left Hand,
Rolled Her On Her Side, Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled
Into Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her
Ear," sionnach.
Oh, THANKS, sinofabitch...
And from terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context,
because you are full of bizarro manure."
"Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
you to progress to striking them more
sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
expert trainer.
You think a EXXXPERT trainer got to BEAT
a HUNTIN dog to MAKE IT HUNT?
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies HURT all
their lives like HOWE HOWER dog lovers PREFER to
HURT THEIR DOGS?
"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."
The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...
terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."
Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should knee the dog in the
chest, step on its toes, throw him down by his ears and climb all
over
it like a raped ape growling into his throat and bite IT on his
ears, or
leash pop it on a pronged spiked pinch choke collar or pop him in
the
snout with the heel of your palm.
"BethF" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "Frank" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leah) wrote in message
news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> > > >"brianev" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > I ENJOYED reading your book, and
> > > > AGREED with what you had to say.
> > > > I find it sick to hear what people
> > > > do with their dogs.
:
> > > Keep in mind that everything he says that
> > > the regular posters of this ng do to their
> > > dogs are lies.
:
> > > All of it. Every last bit.
:
> > All of it?
:
> > Ear pinching?
:
> > Shock collars?
:
> > Spiked chokers?
:
> > The regulars lie more in their denials than
> > Howe does in his accusing of them.
:
> Uh, Frank? Who do you see denying anything?
> Its quite interesting that a newbie like yourself
> would see denials when everyone has Jerry
> killfiled and therefore don't even read his posts,
> let alone respond to them.
"Rocky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
You think matty's playin with a full
goddamned deck?
matty's NOT a liar and dog abuser.
Isn't that true, Marilyn?
Of course not, but THIS IS:
"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.
"Marshall Dermer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Di,
> I don't believe you mentioned a particular
> kind of training. If you are interested in
> training retrieval behavior than do
> consider our own Amy Dahl's:
> The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a
> Well-Mannered, Obedient and
> Enthusiastic Gun Dog in 10 Minutes a
> Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl
You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF SHAKE:"
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A
Dog I Do Not Believe There Is A Single
Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A
Dog Is Anything But Destructive,"
LUCKY thing CHIN CHUCK absolutely don't
mean slap the goddamned dog, we'd look like
a conspiracy of LIARS and DOG abusers if
CHIN CHUCK DID mean SLAP the dog.
"I don't see why anyone would want to choke or
beat a dog, or how any trainer could possibly get
a good working dog by making them unhapper,
fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying frosty dahl.
DOES THAT SOUND LIKE THE TRUTH?
> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.
> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
> few regulars here who are either ill-
> tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
> --Marshall
Or HOWE about HOWER just plain CRUEL
STUPID and ABUSIVE DOG ABUSERS,
professor SCRUFF SHAKE?
amy lying frosty dahl continues:
"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
we have trained require much more
frequent and heavy application of pressure
(PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,
This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
less tractable dogs may require you to
progress to striking them more sharply"
BUT NOBODY DOES THAT HERE...
"Try pinching the ear between the metal
casing and the collar, even the buckle on
the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will
give in but will squeal, thrash around, and
direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch"
OR ATTACKING HIS ABUSER.
"You can press the dog's ear with a
shotshell instead of your thumb even
get a studded collar and pinch the ear
against that Make the dog's need to stop
the pinching so urgent that resisting your
will fades in importance.
CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
using the stick and no ear pinch.
When the dog is digging out to beat the
stick and seems totally reliable without
any ear pinch, you are finished
This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome"
If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly
under the chin, say "No! Hold!"
(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps
because the ear is getting tender, or the
dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying
frosty dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.
From: Marshall Dermer ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>> -snip headers etc.
>> Yes. you're right, I really should find
>> the book.. they don't have these books
>> in the local pet stores I frequent, where
>> do you find Koehler?
> I got a nice large print copy from
> Amazon.com
>Richard
Please try Powell's Books in Portland
Oregon. Their URL is:
http://www.powells.com/
Unlike Amazon.com, Powell's keeps both
new and used books on its shelves. You
can order books via e-email.
Koehler Method Of Dog
Training
by Koehler, W R
Published by HOWELL BOOK
HOUSE (0876056575,
========================================================
Here's some quotes and some methods right outta your
koehler book professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and scream "NO!"
into its face for 5 seconds:"
"The Koehler Method of Dog Training (1962). New York:
Howell Book Book House(p. 52-53)."
Hanging
"First, the trainer makes certain that the collar and leash are
more than adequate for any jerk or strain that the dog's most
frantic actions could cause. Then he starts to work the dog
deliberately and fairly to the point where the dog makes his
grab.
Before the teeth have reached their target,
the dog, weight permitting, is jerked from
the ground.
As in coping with some of the afore-mentioned problems
the dog is suspended in mid-air.
However, to let the biting dog recover
his footing while he still had the strength
to renew the attack would be cruelty.
The only justifiable course is to hold him
suspended until he has neither the strength
nor inclination to renew the fight.
When finally it is obvious that he is
physically incapable of expressing his
resentment and is lowered to the ground,
he will probably stagger loop-legged for a
few steps, vomit once or twice, and roll
over on his side.
The sight of a dog lying, thick-tongued,
on his side, is not pleasant, but do not
let it alarm you
THE REAL "HOOD"
"If your dog is a real "hood" who would
regard the foregoing types of protest as
"kid stuff" and would express his
resentment of your efforts by biting,
your problem is difficult -- and pressing.
"Professional trainers often get these
extreme problems. Nearly always the
"protest biter" is the handiwork of a
person who, by avoiding situations that
the dog might resent, has nurtured the
seeds of rebellion and then cultivated
the resultant growth with under correction.
When these people reap their inevitable
and oftentimes painful harvest, they are
ready to avail themselves of "the cruel
trainer" whose advice they may have
once rejected because it was incompatible
with the sugary droolings of mealy-
mouthed columnists, breed-ring biddies,
and dog psychologists who, by the
broken skins and broken hearts their
misinformation causes, can be proven guilty
of the greatest act of cruelty to animals
since the dawn of time.
"With more genuine compassion for the
biting dog than would ever be demonstrated
by those who are "too kind" to make a
correction and certainly with more disregard
for his safety, the professional trainer
morally feels obligated to perform a "major
operation."
"Since we are presently concerned with
the dog that bites in resentment of the
demands of training, we will set our
example in that situation. (In a later
chapter we will deal with the with the
much easier problem of the dog that
bites someone other than his master."
Are we havin FUN yet?
Got a lite, professor SCRUFF SHAKE?
The Puppy Wizard. <} : ~ ) >
"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:52:18 -0400, "Krishur"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Good books huh?
>
> Absolutely. Some are, in fact, classics.
>
> >Which idea was your favorite, the one where they tell you
> >to alpha roll a "dominant" dog,
>
> There's nothing inherently wrong with rolling a dog (i.e.,
> it *can* and *does* work in *some* situations).
> Unfortunately, most people either do it incorrectly, do it
> at the wrong time, etc.
>
> >or where they tell you that you didn't hit him hard enough
> >if he doesn't yelp or approaches you within 5 minutes of
> >his punishment?
>
> If physical discipline is deemed necessary (after careful
> evaluation), it's much more cruel not to get it over with
> quickly than it is to do it incrementally and
> half-heartedly, which usually only invites the need for even
> more discipline.
>
> >Maybe you liked when they recommend these beatings for
> >housebreaking accidents, chewing/destructive behavior,
> >stealing, trying to get on your bed
> >at night and dog on dog aggression.
>
> At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a dog. A
> swat on the rump or a check to the chin does *not*
> constitute a "beating."
>
> I'm sorry if you don't agree.
>
> And each of those behavior "problems" needs to be looked at
> in its proper context.
>
> A quote from the Monks:
>
> "We repeat, these situations may merit physical discipline.
> Since no book can pretend to analyze every individual dog
> and situation, we feel obligated to emphasize from the
> outset that discipline is never an arbitrary training
> technique to be applied to each and every dog for all
> offenses. We do, however, believe that physical and verbal
> discipline can be an effective technique. The best policy if
> you experience any of the above problems is to consult a
> qualified trainer or veterinarian for evaluation of your
> individual situation....
>
> "If discipline is decided upon as a training technique, it
> should be the proper technique. We feel we have developed
> several methods that depend less on violent physical force
> than timing, a flair for drama, and the element of surprise.
> We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to map out
> these methods, rather than simply skip the topic because it
> is unpleasant. Dog owners want to know what to do."
>
> In other words, physical discipline is reserved for those
> serious, special occasions when other methods have failed.
>
> For example, they do not recommend using physical discipline
> for *routine* housebreaking chores -- only on those rare
> occasions when an already reliably housebroken dog is (after
> careful evaluation) deemed to be soiling the house on
> purpose, backsliding, etc.
>
> I'll give you an actual example. Years ago, an adult dog
> was brought to me as an *incurable* house-soiler. It was
> either get the dog reliably housetrained or the dog was
> going on a one way trip to the pound. Being the kind,
> compassionate trainer that I am, I was prepared to do
> whatever it took to get this dog house-trained and save his
> life.
>
> After several weeks of more or less traditional training,
> and to poor result, I brought out the big guns -- physical
> and verbal discipline. Whenever the dog soiled the house
> (no, you don't even have to catch him in the act), I
> immediately (but very calmly) tossed a leash on his collar,
> dragged him to the scene of the crime, and (using a large
> chair as a prop) tethered him to the leg of the chair, with
> his nose about two inches away from the poop. After a
> couple of swats on the rump, some loud vocalizing, and a
> wait of about 20 minutes, I'd release the dog and then
> ignore him for a while. I had to repeat this process *three*
> times, I think -- and the house-soiling miraculously
> stopped. The dog went home to enjoy a long and contented
> life with his original owners, and I got to feel good about
> myself.
>
> So, yes, the Monk's books are good ones. Even for novices.
>
> Yup, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
>
> -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator to
> reply via e-mail
>
"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On 26 Jul 2003 22:14:29 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (DogStar716)
> wrote:
>
> >>>Never mind dogman :)
> >>
> >>You too? Some folks just never learn.
> >
> >Uh huh :)
>
> One of the signs of mental illness is to say "Uh huh" a lot.
>
> >>PS: If the "trainer" you were talking about isn't on this
> >>list, he (or she) is NOT an approved Koehler trainer, no
> >>matter how loud you scream otherwise.
> >
> >May I laugh again? LOL! One doesn't need to be on a list
> >to use Koehlers
> >methods or teach his methods.
>
> Let me be among the first (apparently) to tell you that not
> every trainer who uses a leash is a *Koehler* trainer.
>
> Sheesh.
>
> This person may call herself a Koehler trainer, but if she's
> hanging 12 week old puppies, she's about as far from a
> Koehler trainer as a dog trainer can possibly be.
>
> Again, this is just your IGNORANCE showing.
>
> I can call myself a devout Christian, but if I'm not
> adhering to the doctrine, I'm something else.
>
> >>http://www.koehlerdogtraining.com/patoflearn.html
> >Sorry, the very first sentences make me aware that whoever
> >wrote it knows nothing about PR based training:
> >
> >"Amidst the current (and politically correct) trend in
> >Positive Reinforcement
> >Only training systems"
> >
> >You cannot use PR only.
>
> Au contraire. Many, many posters to r.p.d.b. (and many
> other places as well) *claim* that they use nothing but R.
> You know, the PPers.
>
> And they do it quite loudly, too.
>
> Surely you aren't blind (and deaf), as well as ignorant?
>
> Those are hard handicaps to overcome, Dogstar.
>
> >And if you knew anything about PR BASED training, you would
> >realize that. It's not all cookies and babytalk.
>
> There is no stronger supporter of R than Handsome Jack
> Morrison, but I also use every behavioral tool in my bag,
> including R-, P, and P-, because I know that even R has its
> limits.
>
> You'd know that too, if you didn't have your head in the
> sand.
>
> > But that seems to be the battle cry of the Koehler-ites.
>
> The Koehlerites have no battle cry.
>
> They have behaviorism on their side, and that's more than
> enough.
>
> >I don't need instruction on how to give my dogs a proper
> >leash correction as I
> >do not rely on a leash to control or teach my dog.
>
> That may or may not be suitable for your needs, but it's not
> suitable for the majority of dog owners, especially since
> the advent of leash laws.
>
> Besides, after just a few weeks of proper Koehler training,
> Koehler dogs likewise are no longer in need of a leash.
>
> That you apparently don't know that, once again shows me
> just how ignorant of anything to do with Koehler you are.
>
> >My last two dogs have been trained offleash right from the
> >start, using rewards for what I like, and nothing for what
> >I don't like.
>
> Good for you, and if that level of training is good enough
> for you, fine. But it's not good enough for many of the
> rest of us.
>
> >Again, I'm not saying Koehler doesn't work.
>
> I really have no idea what you're saying anymore, because
> you apparently know so damn little about Koehler and
> behavioral principles in general that it's hard to have an
> informed discussion with you.
>
> PS: It boggles my mind at how stupid you must be to keep
> denying that those certain harsh methods are only for LAST
> RESORT situations, intended only to SAVE A DOG'S LIFE, even
> after I've repeatedly given you direct *quotes* from
> Koehler's book saying just that. It's like you don't even
> care how stupid people think you are, or how devious you
> are, etc. That can't help your cause any. You'd think that
> you'd at least want to *appear* to be honest, even if you're
> not. -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator
> to reply via e-mail
Better report to Soup and update your MENTAL ILLNESS status.
The Puppy Wizard wouldn't wanna push you over the goddamned
edge and see you HURT YOURSELF from EMBARASSMENT.
RPD* Mentally Ill AllStaRz as of 7/4/03
-----------------------------------------------
MENTAL ILLNESS IN RPD*
Mental illness is a public issue in these newsgroups.
People are always running around calling other people
mentally ill and diagnosing their illnesses. I think it's only
fair that we have an accurate list of who is and who isn't
mentally ill, so that we can avoid any misunderstandings
and promote group harmony.
Updated list as of 7/04/2003:
list of confirmed or suspected mentally ill (crazy) Regulars
Most of whom are women or homosexuals
=======================================
MaryBeth
MVP (most valuable psycho)
(super psycho bitch lunatic
queen of the mentally fucked
in the head
Has contributed greatly to the annual profit
results at several large pharmaceutical corps
has taken virtually every mentally ill (crazy)
drug treatment in the book, and then some:
prozac, zoloft, amitryptiline, Buspar, Xanax,
effexor, paxil, HRT, wellbutrin, tranquilizers,
clomid, has suffered from or been:
suicidal, agoraphobic, tidal waves of
PMS, mood swings, turned into a hermit,
bloated, just real angry, hubby afraid
of her, high blood pressure, divorced, "raving
bitch"
"zoloft zombie" for four years, "living
through layers and layers of gauze,"
chain smoker, buzzing, weight gain, fatigue,
terrible dry mouth, dull headaches, fuzzy brain,
lack of concentration..etc. severe depression,
severe insomnia,
Panic ALL the time, crying, not sleeping, you
name it...etc...
MaryBeth (on being seriously f'd in the head
aka mentally ill) aka cuckoo! kuckoo! ding! ding! ding!
aka a superpsychotic bitch from hell
"I know for a fact I went thru years of
being overly sensitive, being a b*tch,
being self centered, being self pitying,
you name it, I was a wreck and I ran
over everyone in my path."
"<G> I do know the power of meds, especially
on a long term basis, and it's not pretty.
You become another person, if it's not
the correct med for you.
--All the best,
MaryBeth
"Yup Diane, I am taking Zoloft, and my
Rheumatologist told me that taking
Ultram with it can cause seizures."
"I have all the symptoms.I am suicidal at
times (cyclical) have severe insomnia,
'crawly' skin etc. I have an appt to see
my doc next Friday to test for menopause."
--MaryBeth
"I noticed that antidepressants cut
libido into the dead zone and I had no real
emotions, like not laughing at funny stuff,
couldn't cry either.....except about my suicidal
thoughts (but at the time I thought there was no
other way out)."
--MaryBeth
"Hi, new to group, just starting Clomid
today. I talked with RE and pharmacist re:
zoloft (50 mg daily) and ineraction with Clomid.
They reported none. Not sure about the prozac
tho.
Gonna poat a new message to intorduce myself :)"
--MaryBeth <still feeling like herself> <G>
"I wasted about 10 years of my life, and
lost many many treasured ppl and things.
Please don't do the same.
(((((((SCOUT))))))))))
--MaryBeth
"Slowly but surely my depression got
worse and worse. They put me on meds for it, and
all along kept telling me to wait on the TKR, as
'it really wasn't that bad.....yet". HA!"
The depression got so bad, and lots of other things
happened and my ex and I would up divorced four
years after our move. It was horrible.
The hardest thing I have ever gone thru"
--MaryBeth
Theresa Willis (paxil, depression, robot displacement)
shelly couvrette
OCD, depression, drugs to be named later
(familial mental illness, possibly related to
family bed) obsessively starves her dogs
according to friends, family, strangers and
3 different vets, but not herself
lynn kosmakos (Lithium, Zoloft, bipolar, manic,
depression) will "put down a biter
as fast as anyone" yet claims to
be a saintly dog rescuer
Leah
Effexor for chronic depression, in denial about being
mentally ill. Has taken several other mentally ill
medications before settling on effexor for her chronic
mental problems
Tara Green
was on antidepressants for a few years
prior to her marriage. During her
marriage, she learned a lot:
"With the therapist I saw during my
marriage I learned that some situational
depressions are masked as chemical
simply because of our too human ability
to prolong the impact of the causal
situations indefinitely"
Sounds like more denial, see leah
Tara is also a drunk who has also had
problems with other substances
TARA on being a drunk/substance abuser:
"Tara (who had some problems with quite a
few substances as well, but who thinks they
are separate issues.....so which camp does
that put me in???)"
"Believe it or not, some people don't have
a problem with drugs even though they are
alcoholics. I'm not one of those people, but they do exist."
aka, tara has problems with both
Kevin Michael Vail
various mental illness drugs, started with
zoloft, didn't like that, then went to
antidepressant, stopped after sufficent
side effects, now on SSRI and in therapy
Furpaw (SSRI, cognitive therapy)
Chris Jung (Prozac and Welbutrin, cognitive therapy)
Charlie Wilkes
drugged out, crazy, fucked up all his
life, Christ the shit he's been through
including psych wards and electroshock
treatments but now pulling down major
cash as a business consultant. Triumphing
over adversity, with a damn good life and a
well trained dog (very much unlike Leah)
Karen DuChateaux
aka Karibear
suffered from clinical depression for
years until some drug or something brought her
out of it. Some of her best friends "are certifiable"
and have various degrees of psychoses.
Familial mental disability.
Refuses to say whether or not she is
currently using drug or cognitive therapy
for mental illness.
Mike "DumbOxDumb" Dufort (pending)
threatened non violent dog expert Jerry Howe
with Mike's fully armed US Army Platoon.
Threatened to bring his platoon to Jerry's
HOWSE. also OCD (obsessed with Jerry's posts)
Jim Sabatke Jim is currently on Effexor which he takes
because of his depression/mental problems.
Like many of our mental cases, Jim has
had trouble finding the right med(s) to keep
him from going kuckoo!! kuckoooo!!! or
getting the "brain shivers"
From: Jim Sabatke ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Subject: Re: anyone using Effexor?
alt.support.depression.medication
Date: 2002-11-29 20:25:16 PST
EFFEXOR
"I'm on 375 mg/day and it has worked
wonders for me. The only down side is
that my blood pressure has elevated
somewhat; oh and if I miss a dose by a
couple of hours the "brain shivers" can
be really bad.
Good luck!
Jim"
"I switched from Paxil to Effexor about
5 months ago. I tapered off of the Paxil
and tapered onto the Effexor at the same
time."
Jim
"After several years on Effexor IR, my
pdoc tried switching me to XR. I
experienced fairly severe Effexor
withdrawel until I went back to the IR."
Jim
<YOUR NAME GOES HERE>
(please proudly add your name and the drugs/disorders
specific to you, if you are also mentally ill). If we all come
forward, we can help each other with our problems.
Remember, mental illness is nothing to be ashamed of.
It's not your fault if you have a defective brain which
may cause you to act like an extreme hypocrite and/or
idiot and/or robot without your being aware of it).
Also, please notify us if you are *not* mentally ill, and
have been added to this by mistake, so we can make
our corrections and remove you from the crazy person list.
--
mental health weekly
===========================================
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