Re: The God Spots in the Brain

Tim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in alt.atheism

> Elroy Willis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> Tim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in alt.atheism
>>> Elroy Willis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>>> Tim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in alt.atheism

>> <snip>

>>>>> I fail to see how "neurotheology" (ROFLOL) will help anyone;
>>>>> except theists who realize that there dogma is ineffective and who
>>>>> attempt to use scientific means to justify their beliefs.

>>>> How do you think they could use it to justify their beliefs, exactly?

>>> Sunday school failed in its attempt to brainwash the masses;

>> In actuality, it seems to have done a pretty good job here in the
>> USA... At least the part of it I live in.

> touché.

>>> let's see if "science" will work instead.

>> Do you think Persinger is a religious man for some reason?  From what
>> I've read, I don't surmise that he is.

> To be honest I haven't read any of his work or any other neurotheology. I
> saw Immortalist's post, had a quick glance, and got the giggles.

Fair enough.  You can giggle if you want, but if you do some reading
about him and the field of neurotheology, I'd be surprised if you kept
laughing for long.

>>> I believe that neurotheology is akin to "creation science". i.e.. the
>>> use of pseudo-scientific nonsense to justify a pre-excepted belief (God).
>>> Assume God and then use "science" to "prove" it.

> Again, this is based solely on my whitewashed and uniformed opinion. But
> see my comments below.

Be careful about shooting your mouth off if you're uninformed about
something around here.  You never know who might be reading your
post and call you on something you said.

>> I don't get that impression from most of the neurotheologists I've
>> read about.  They say some things that are obviously intended to quell
>> the fears of some religious people like "We're not out to disprove
>> God," or something like that, but that doesn't mean that they actually
>> are trying to support the idea of some external god which exists
>> outside the brains of the believers.

>>>>> Neuroscience and brain surgery help people; neurotheology is proof
>>>>> that religion is scrambling to justify itself. Why waste time on a dying
>>>>> dog?

>>>> I actually foresee the god helmet that Persinger uses being simplified
>>>> and the components miniaturized and made available to the consumer
>>>> to use in the privacy of their homes, as a meditation aid, or as a way
>>>> to relax or get high without any drugs.

>>>> Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know, but it would
>>>> probably threaten the churches if people could get high on god without
>>>> going to church.  The government would probably get involved as well,
>>>> maybe even the FDA, who knows?  I actually wonder what department of
>>>> the government might try to intervene in such a case. The helmet
>>>> wouldn't really be a food or a drug, so maybe it's out of their
>>>> bounds?  Hmm...

>>> I wonder if these neurotheologists have researched non-religious
>>> persons?

>> What do you mean by researched?

>> Would you be willing to try a god helmet?  If not, why not?

> Sure, I'll try anything (almost) once. My problem is why call it God spot?

A "religious experience spot" might be a better description?  Maybe
so.

> Why focus only on "religious" experience? Does someone who enjoys putting
> cocaine up their nose experience similar or the same phenomena? Why
> equivocate God with brain function?

They both lead to the same things, or conclusion, imo.  Chemicals and
electro-chemical interactions going on in the brain.

>> I'm pretty sure I'd try one if they sent me one for free and were
>> interested in my feedback.  If I had to buy one to try it out, it
>> might be a different story.  If I tried it and I liked it, I might buy
>> it as well...

>> You can actually buy one now, at:

>> http://www.innerworlds.50megs.com/shakti_lite/

>> The warnings are interesting...

>> "Use at your own Risk.
>> Use with care.
>> Use only the suggested session designs.
>> Do Not Use If You Have a History of Epilepsy, migraine headaches, or
>> Psychiatric Disorders, or if you have a damaged or compromised Brain.
>> Do not use if you are taking psychiatric medications.
>> If you are ambidextrous, you will need to work within some
>> limitations. Click HERE to learn about them
>> Do not use if you do not understand English.
>> Do not use if you are less than 18 years of age."

>>> It does not surprise me that someone who has faith in prayer can
>>> experience euphoria or whatever when they prey.

>> Many people can't experience that when they're all alone.  They need a
>> group of people gathered together, all praying together, with some
>> preacher up on stage, yapping away about their god, or some central
>> point of focus that they all pray to.  It's a form of mass mind
>> control and hypnosis in a way.  Doing it five times a day instead of
>> once or twice a week seems to be most effective in the case of Islam.

> Some need others more than others. I can think of many times in my life
> were a smile from someone or some potential for hope has pulled me out
> of a sour mood or the doldrums.

Sure.  Nothing wrong with that.

>> Funny how many Christians flat out ignore what Jesus said about
>> praying in public.  He said to go into your room or closet and close
>> the door and pray all alone, like he did when he went off on his own
>> to pray many times, away from his disciples or followers.

>>> A healthy mind, I believe, promotes a healthy body and vice versa.
>>> However, none believers can have positive attitudes too. I believe this
>>> is the crux. Positive attitude, prayer, hope, huge ego - there all the same
>>> thing, but be assured that no neurotheologist quack will admit to this.

>> I think you might have the wrong impression of the neurotheologists
>> out there.  You seem to think they're trying to prove that some god
>> really exists or something.

> Then I think their title is a mis-nomer. Again why use the term theologist?

Probably because part of the research deals with religious or
theological experiences?  What would a better title be, if you could
pick one?

> A theist is one who holds that there is atleast one good argument supporting
> the existence of you know who. Why not just neurologist? Why not "touchy,
> feel-good technician"?

Not scientific-sounding enough I suppose.  :-)

>>> They'll preach the power of prayer and stick to it like a fly on you
>>> know what. The God spot - ha ha ha ha ha.

>> If they were smart, they'd market the god helmet to get rid of prayer,
>> if prayers are what really relax the religious people out there.

>> "Why go to church to get your weekly god fix when you can do it
>> from the comfort of your couch?"

> Good point. God is dead but the helmet lives. It lives!!!!!

I actually sent an email to the FDA to see if such a device falls
under their jurisdiction, but haven't heard back from them yet.

-- 
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news