Re: Evidences of God

"stoney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 23:34:40 +0200, "Chain Smoker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Message ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in alt.atheism;
>
> >"stoney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 00:21:27 +0200, "Chain Smoker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> >> Message ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in alt.atheism;
>
> (snip)
>
> >> >You may not be insane, but this behavior does seem to fall in line
with
> >> >insanity.  Your sad attempt to turn the tables on me fails because I
do
> >not
> >> >exhibit this strange behavior.
> >>
> >> (laughing at you)  Grovelling before a bronze age
> >> 'monster-under-the-bed' has zero to do with rationality.
> >
> >As for your apparent posting numerous responses to yourself, I suppose
you
> >may be right.  Maybe that's one of the consequences of crossposting an
> >argument like this one.  One or more of the participants may appear to
one
> >or more bystanders to be arguing with himself, depending on what
newsgroups
> >the various participants' news servers will post to and which they won't.
> >It does create an effect, though, that makes the one poster you can see
seem
> >looney.
>
> You're more than welcome to utilize Google to check what I stated, it
> won't bother me at all.  The appearance does occur once in awhile and
> there are times when such is actuality.    I think you're right in
> stating the more newsgroups the message is going to the increased chance
> of such a delay occuring.

I won't check Google because I am content to take you at your word on this
matter.  It just isn't important enough to bother over, and, frankly, I am
convinced I was mistaken in my original impression.

> >About God, you can laugh at me as much as you like.  It makes no
difference.
> >He won't become any less real just because you wish He would.
>
> I do laugh at theists from time to time-those who project their
> superstition onto an outside audience.  And you're right, a fantasy will
> never become reality.

I never made any assertion that a fantasy will never become a reality, nor
did I make a statement that could be honestly misinterpreted as such.  For
you to twist my words that way effectively, I'd have had to say that God
will not become any more real just because you wish He would.  I didn't, and
your trying to twist my words to your desired effect looks strained as a
result.

> A few other points.
>
> 1)  According to the Christian superstition, all are mere actors in a
> pointless play hitting their marks and spouting their lines as was
> scripted eons ago.

According to Christianity, on the other hand, we are all free moral agents,
and choose our own destiny by our life's choices.

> 2)  I find it quite interesting many theists can't fathom a lack of
> belief and insist, like you do, that their theism premises have been
> objectively supported and non-believers are merely being 'difficult' or
> some such.

I understand lack of belief.  I just regret it, as I feel the doubter may be
in for a brutal shock later on.

> That is not the case.  Further most U.S. based atheists were theists, in
> the main, members of one  or more xtian sects.  Some, not me, were rabid
> evangelistic types or looking at a career in the clergy.  Many times
> people have indicated how painful the process of losing belief was and
> how hard they struggled to retain it.

I'm not sure how you determined that most U.S. based atheists used to be
theists.  Every instance of this is tragic, though.

> Please keep in mind there has been no suggestion that you lose your
> theism.  If such brings you comfort then, by all means, retain it.

Thank you, it does.

> If you have a question, feel free to inquire.  Most folks here in aa
> have no axe to grind.  I do warn you people here have the tendency to be
> brutally honest.

Yes, I have a question.  Pretty much every one of the atheists that I have
come across refer to all of the world's major religions and religious
leaders by the same names as followers of that religion do.  For a couple
examples, they call Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, and Judaism, Islam,
Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, and Judaism, respectively.  Buddha, Confucius,
Mohammed, and the Dalai Lama, they call Buddha, Confucius, Mohammed, and the
Dalai Lama.

These lists are not complete by any means.  In fact, this rule extends, in
my experience, to all religions but one.  Christianity, you often refer to
as xtianity.  Jesus, I often see called Jeezuz or Jeezus.  The question,
then, is this.  What is it about Christ and his followers that warrants
special attention and disdain from many atheists?  It cannot be that we are
more zealous or aggressive in our faith -- Muslims kill themselves often in
pursuit of theirs.  It cannot be that we are more interested in gaining
converts than the others -- again, the Muslims are more aggressive.  It
cannot be that we are singled out because we are the ones on the other side
of that particular argument, though I could give that answer partial credit.
I have seen atheists more than once blame the troubles in the Middle East on
the three headed monster of "Judaism, Islam, and xtianity" even when none of
the participants in the discussion were openly discussing religion in that
thread previous to such comments.

So please tell me why you think atheists hate Christianity most of all the
major religions, or at least show it the most prominently.

> 3)  Let's utilize your above statement and change the 'entity.'  Perhaps
> you'll see where non-christians and non-theists are coming from.
>
> >About God, you can laugh at me as much as you like.  It makes no
difference.
> >He won't become any less real just because you wish He would.
>
> About Santa Claus, you can laugh at me as much as you like.  It makes no
> difference.  He won't become any less real just because you wish He
> would.
>
> About the Easter Bunny, you can laugh at me as much as you like.  It
> makes no difference.  He won't become any less real just because you
> wish He would.
>
> About Tiamat the Dragon, you can laugh at me as much as you like.
> It makes no difference. She won't become any less real just because you
> wish She would.
>
> About Ra, you can laugh at me as much as you like.  It makes no
> difference.  He won't become any less real just because you wish He
> would.
>
> About Odin All-Father, you can laugh at me as much as you like.
> It makes no difference.  He won't become any less real just because you
> wish He would.
>
> About Hera, you can laugh at me as much as you like.  It makes no
> difference. She won't become any less real just because you wish She
> would.
>
> About, Nammu, Goddess of the Primeval Sea, "the mother who gave birth to
> heaven and earth. (Sumerian from
> http://www.usfca.edu/westciv/Sumerian.html) "you can laugh at me as much
> as you like.  It makes no difference.  She won't become any less real
> just because you wish She would.
>
> Continue on with all the other deities and entities you lack belief in.
> I'm sure you see the point.

All of the above can be said -- an obvious point, since you just "said"
them.  None of them, not even mine, constitute proof that our beliefs are
the "true" ones.  That was not my intent in making the statement, as I have
long been aware of its weakness when used to attempt persuasion.  I was
merely stating fact.

> Theists assert their particular
> deity/deities exist while those outside the brand lack belief in what is
> being asserted.  *You* are atheist with regard to all other deity
> constructs but yours.  I, and others, merely lack belief in your as
> well.  Strangely, the lack of belief in all others doesn't bother
> theists, but it does when theirs isn't given special treatment.

I don't necessarily doubt that other gods than God exist.  I don't
necessarily believe it either.  I just don't care whether they exist at all.
I believe God, the Father of Christ, supercedes any and all other things.
Christ's teachings seem to me the best thing I've ever encountered.  I
think, even if a person thought he was not the Son of God, that they should
appreciate him for those.

> Have a nice day.

And you.


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