Re: What could motivate a god?

Has anyone got a kill filter that lives up to it's name?

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 02:57:24 GMT, "Qolon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>Mark this claim" I am not Trolling and have no intention to crosspost",
>which is unethically and without justification made by you as an atheist
>(ie. a Godless person) to a Christian discussion forum, if your posting
>history of 12 Nov 2003 is anything to go by, suggests your posting is a
>troll, "Christians and other Monotheists think pagan gods are petty
>creatures unworthy of worship - like Sauron - and that God - Yahweh - Allah
>is a different order of being altogether.  (why liking one god more than
>another makes it any more real - is another topic itself)" [Atheist Mark
>Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED] on alt.religion.christian on 3
>December, 2003]
>
>- dolf
>- <http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html>
>
>From: Mark Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.atheism,alt.recovery.religion
>Subject: Re: A Question for Atheists About Charity Organizations.
>
>X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: gla-46175.antcrc.utas.edu.au
>X-Original-Trace: 12 Nov 2003 11:24:54 +1000, gla-46175.antcrc.utas.edu.au
>
>[snipped for context]
>
>(Which is why I avoid christian charities - I want to know the money
>is being spent on helping people - not converting them )
>
>Mark.
>
>--
>Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau
>
>Member of S.M.A.S.H.
>(Sarcastic Middle aged  Atheists with a Sense of Humour)
>
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>"Mark Richardson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>The topic arises occasionally but often obliquely in religious
>discussion - I would like an actual thread and get other peoples
>thoughts on this one.
>
>(I originally posted this essay on alt.atheism - "preaching to the
>un-converted" you might say -  but I wanted to hear if christians have
>something interesting to say. I am not Trolling and have no intention
>to crosspost - genuinely interested in hearing your views.)
>So here it is.
>------------------------------
>
>Gods are described by mythology as willful beings - they *want* people
>to behave in a certain way so they bribe, threaten, send dreams and
>visions to get their way.
>The God of the OT or the Homeric gods being classic examples - very
>active, meddlesome, willful, vengeful - pleased and displeased with
>mortals behavior.
>
>Then there is the "philosophers God" - remote, abstract, perfect -
>Aristotle's "unmoved mover".
>
>Somehow these two are supposed to be the one and the same thing -
>which I think is a perfectly insane idea.
>
>Depending on the individual believer, their version of God fits
>somewhere on the broad spectrum from active to passive - from the
>fundamentalist God that watches very closely what every person on the
>planet does with their sexual organs and judges them accordingly to
>the remote and disinterested Deist God.
>
>First let me deal briefly with one extreme of this spectrum.
>To me a god has to be a being with a will - Gravity isn't a god - even
>though it is powerful and omnipresent and eternal - it treats a gram
>of matter the same whether it is living or dead or good or evil - it
>never "decides" to behave one way and not another - so a purely
>impersonal and uninvolved "god" isn't a god at all as far as I am
>concerned - its a force of nature - like gravity.
>(Or for an example in philosophical thought -  the Tao isn't a god.)
>
>This is related to the idea of worship - there is no point in
>"worshiping" or "believing in" a being that has no will - if it cannot
>react to your praise and send you to paradise or smite your enemies
>then there is literally no point in worshiping such a being.
>
>So a god - at least one that I need consider - must have will.
>
>A rain god needs the right sort of worship - prayers and sacrifices -
>or he will become angry and not send the rains and people will starve.
>
>Or
>
>God needs us to worship his son Jesus (not his real name) or he will
>not reward us with eternal life in paradise.
>
>Why?
>
>What could motivate a god to *want* things from us and to reward or
>punish us?
>
>Think about Sauron in "Lord of the RIngs" - he wants to destroy
>everything beautiful and noble and corrupt the world and fill it with
>his hate and malice.
>What's his motivation?
>
>In the case of petty gods - like Sauron - they have histories - they
>have personal stories - they have suffered pain and regret and have
>felt envy and rage and a desire for vengeance.
>The motivations of Sauron are the motivations of mortals - he is like
>Stalin or Mao Tse Tung but with great supernatural power - he is ruled
>by his human pettiness and frailties - he has great power but the
>emotional stability of a 2 year old having a tantrum.
>
>Christians and other Monotheists think pagan gods are petty creatures
>unworthy of worship - like Sauron - and that God - Yahweh - Allah is a
>different order of being altogether.
> (why liking one god more than another makes it any more real - is
>another topic itself)
>
>But they cant have it both ways - if they reject the idea that their
>god is a petty creature motivated by mere human emotions and desire -
>then what motivates them?
>
>Don't know? It's a mystery? Never asked yourself the question?
>Well I am asking...
>What *could* *possibly* motivate an eternal, all powerful, all knowing
>being?
>What could possibly motivate a being such as this to move - to act -
>to desire some outcome?
>
>The whole notion of God falls apart on this question.
>
>God has no reason to ever say "let their be light" - we never have to
>look beyond Genesis chapter one  - the story fails right there.
>We never even have to think about "evidence" or "proof" or anything
>along those lines.
>
>Mark. (Feeling very much like a Strong Atheist today).
>
>
>--
>Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau
>
>Member of S.M.A.S.H.
>(Sarcastic Middle aged  Atheists with a Sense of Humour)
>
>-----------------------------------------------------
>


-Barry
========
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