Re: TALMUD AND CHRISTIANS

"Deborah Sharavi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "Conquistador" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<wrote in message
news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> >In Sanhedrin 106a-106b (Page Viewer), we see that a woman "who was
> the
> >descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with
> carpenters."
> >Looking at footnote number 5, we see this "harlot," notes the Talmud,
> >"though no name is mentioned to show which woman is meant, the mother
> of
> >Jesus may be alluded to" (emphasis added). We also take note that it
> >"suggests that Balaam is frequently used in the Talmud as a type for
> Jesus"
> >(emphasis added) in the same footnote. (This is also confirmed in the
> Jewish
> >Encyclopedia [page not shown] where it notes that "Baalam" is just
> another
> >name for "Jesus." It then goes on to say that "the pupils of the
> recreant
> >Baalam inherit hell.")
>
> Cut the crap, Alex. Nice to see your source is getting
> better on the transliteration.
>
> BT Sanhedrin 106a
> is renewed1 and its roots are numerous, and even if all the winds of
> the world come and blow upon it they cannot dislodge it from its
> place, but it sways in unison with them, and as soon as the winds
> subside, the reed still stands in its place, [so may Israel be]. But
> the wicked Balaam blessed them by the cedar:2 just as the cedar does
> not stand in a watery place, and its roots are few and its stock is
> not renewed, and even if all the winds of the world come and blow upon
> it they cannot stir it from its place, but immediately the South wind
> blows upon it it uproots and overturns it on its face, [so may Israel
> be]. Nay, more, it was the reed's privilege that a quill thereof
> should be taken for the writing of the Scroll of the Torah, Prophets
> and Hagiographa.
>
> And he looked on the Kenite, and took up his parable.3 Balaam said to
> Jethro, 'Thou Kenite, wast thou not with us in that scheme?4 Who then
> placed thee among the strong ones of the world!'5 And that is what R.
> Hiyya b. Abba said in R. Simai's name: Three were involved in that
> scheme,6 viz., Balaam, Job, and Jethro. Balaam, who advised it, was
> slain; Job, who was silent,7 was punished through suffering; and
> Jethro, who fled - his descendants were privileged to sit in the Hall
> of Hewn Stones, as it is written, And the families of the scribes
> which dwell at Jabez, the Tirathites, the Shemeathites, and
> Suchathites. These are the Kenites that came of Hemath, the father of
> the house of Rechab;8 whilst elsewhere it is written, And the children
> of the Kenite, Moses' father in law, went up out of the city of palm
> trees.9
>
> And he took up his parable, and said, Alas, who shall live when God
> doeth this!10 R. Simeon b. Lakish said: Woe unto him who maketh
> himself alive by the name of God,11 R. Johanan said: Woe to the nation
> that may be found [attempting to hinder], when the Holy One, blessed
> be He, accomplishes the redemption of his children: who would throw
> his garment between a lion and a lioness when these are copulating!12
>
> And ships shall come from the coast of Chittim.13 Rab said: This
> refers to the White Legion.14 And shall afflict Asshur, and shall
> afflict Eber:15 Until Asshur, they shall slay; after that, they shall
> throw into subjection.16
>
> And now, behold I go unto my people; come, therefore, and I will
> advertise thee what this people shall do to thy people in the latter
> days.17 But he should have said, What thy people shall do to this
> people?18 - R. Abba b. Kahana said: It is as one who, cursing himself,
> refers his malediction to others.19 He [Balaam] said thus to him
> [Balak]. 'The God of these hates lewdness, and they are very partial
> to linen.20 Come, and I will advise thee. Erect for them tents
> enclosed by hangings, in which place harlots, old women without, young
> women within, to sell them linen garments.' So he erected curtained
> tents from the snowy mountain [Hermon] as far as Beth ha-Yeshimoth
> [i.e., right from north to south], and placed harlots in them - old
> women without, young women within. And when an Israelite ate, drank,
> and was merry, and issued forth for a stroll in the market place, the
> old woman would say to him, 'Dost thou not desire linen garments?' The
> old woman offered it at its current value, but the young one for less.
> This happened two or three times. After that she would say to him,
> 'Thou art now like one of the family; sit down and choose for
> thyself.' Gourds of Ammonite wine lay near her, and at that time
> Ammonite21 and heathen wine had not yet been forbidden. Said she to
> him, 'Wouldst thou like to drink a glass of wine?' Having drunk, [his
> passion] was inflamed, and he exclaimed to her, 'Yield to me!'
> Thereupon she brought forth an idol from her bosom and said to him,
> 'Worship this'! 'But I am a Jew', he protested. 'What does that
> concern thee?' she rejoined, 'Nothing is required but that thou should
> uncover thyself' - whilst he did not know that such was its worship.
> 'Nay', [said she,] 'I will not leave thee ere thou hast denied the
> Torah of Moses thy teacher,' as it is written, They went into
> Baal-peor, and separated themselves unto that shame, and their
> abominations were according as they loved.22
>
> And Israel abode in Shittim.23 R. Eliezer said: Its name was Shittim.
> R. Joshua said: They engaged in ways of folly [shetuth],24 And they
> called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods:25 R. Eliezer
> said: They met them naked;26 R. Joshua said: They were all excited to
> pollution.27
>
> What is the meaning of Rephidim?28 - R. Eliezer said: Rephidim was its
> name. R. Joshua said: [It was so called] because there they slackened
> in [their loyalty to] the Torah, as it is written, The fathers shall
> not look back to their children for feebleness of hands.29
>
> R. Johanan said: Wherever [Scripture] writes 'And he abode [or
> dwelt]', it denotes trouble, Thus: And Israel abode in Shittim - and
> the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab;30 And
> Jacob dwelt in the laid where his father was a stranger, in the land
> of Canaan31 - and Joseph brought unto his father their evil report;32
> And Israel dwelt in the land of Egypt, in the country of Goshen33 -
> And the time drew near that Israel must die;34 And Judah and Israel
> dwelt safely, every man under his vine and under his fig tree35 - And
> the Lord stirred up an adversary unto Solomon, Hadad the Edomite; he
> was the king's seed in Edom.36
>
> And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were
> slain . Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.37 What
> business had Balaam there? - R. Jonathan said: He went to receive his
> reward for the twenty-four thousand Israelites whose destruction he
> had encompassed.38 Mar Zutra b. Tobiah remarked in Rab's name: This is
> what men say, 'When the camel went to demand horns, they cut off the
> ears he had.'39
>
> Balaam also the son of Beor, the soothsayer, [did the children of
> Israel slay with the sword].40 A soothsayer? But he was a prophet! -
> R. Johanan said: At first he was a prophet, but subsequently a
> soothsayer.41 R. Papa observed: This is what men say, 'She who was the
> descendant of princes and governors, played the harlot with
> carpenters.'42
>
> BT Sanhedrin 106b
> Did the children of Israel slay with the sword among them that were
> slain by them.1 Rab said: They subjected him to four deaths, stoning,
> burning, decapitation and strangulation.2
>
> A certain min3 said to R. Hanina: Hast thou heard how old Balaam was?
> - He replied: It is not actually stated, but since it is written,
> Bloody and deceitful men shall not live out half their days,4 [it
> follows that] he was thirty-three or thirty-four years old.5 He
> rejoined: Thou hast said correctly; I personally have seen Balaam's
> Chronicle, in which it is stated, 'Balaam the lame was thirty years
> old when Phinehas the Robber killed him.'6
>
> Mar, the son of Rabina, said to his sons: In the case of all [those
> mentioned as having no portion in the future world] you should not
> take [the Biblical passages dealing with them] to expound them [to
> their discredit], excepting in the case of the wicked Balaam: whatever
> you find [written] about him, lecture upon it [to his disadvantage].
>
> Scripture writes Doeg7 and Doeeg:8 R. Johanan said: At first the Holy
> One, blessed be He, sits and is anxious lest one go out on an evil
> course. But when he has done so, He exclaims, 'Woe, that he has
> entered [on an evil path]!'
>
> R. Isaac said: What is meant by the verse, Why boastest thou thyself
> in mischief, O mighty man? The goodness of God endureth continually?9
> - The Holy One, blessed be He, said to Doeg,10 'Art thou not a mighty
> man in Torah? Why then boastest thou thyself in mischief?11 Is not the
> love of God continually spread over thee?' R. Isaac also said: What is
> meant by the verse; But unto the wicked God sayeth, What hast thou to
> do to declare my statutes?12 The Holy One, blessed be He, said to the
> wicked Doeg, 'What hast thou to do to declare [i.e., study] my
> statutes: when thou comest to the sections dealing with murderers and
> slanderers, how dost thou expound them?'13 Or that thou shouldst take
> my covenant in thy mouth?14 R. Ammi said: Doeg's learning was only
> from the lips without.15 R. Isaac also said: What is meant by the
> verse, The righteous also shall see, and fear, and shall laugh at
> him?16 - At first they shall fear [the wicked person], but
> subsequently laugh at him. R. Isaac also said: What is meant by the
> verse, He hath swallowed down riches, and he shall vomit them up
> again: God shall cast them out of his belly?17 David pleaded before
> the Holy One, blessed be He, 'Sovereign of the Universe! Let Doeg
> die!' He replied, 'He hath swallowed down riches, and he shall vomit
> them up again.'18 He rejoined, 'Let God cast them out of his belly!'19
>
> R. Isaac also said: What is meant by God shall likewise destroy thee
> for ever?20 - The Holy One, blessed be He, said to David, 'Let us
> bring Doeg to the future world.' He replied to Him, 'God shall
> likewise destroy thee for ever.' What is meant by the verse, He shall
> take thee away, and pluck thee out of the tent, and root thee out of
> the land of the living. Selah?21 The Holy One, blessed be He, urged,
> 'Let a law be stated in his name in the schoolhouse,' but he [David]
> replied to Him, 'He shall take thee away and pluck thee out of the
> tent. 'Then let his children be Rabbis!' - 'And thy root [shall be
> torn out] of the land of the living. Selah!' R. Isaac also said: What
> is meant by the verse, Where is the enumerator, where is the weigher!
> Where is he that counted the towers!22 - Where is he who enumerated
> all the letters of the Torah?23 Where is he who weighed all the light
> [comparatively unimportant] and heavy [important] [precepts] of the
> Torah?24 Where is he that counted the towers - who counted three
> hundred fixed laws on a 'tower flying in the air.'25
>
> R. Ammi said: Doeg and Ahitophel propounded four hundred problems with
> respect to a tower flying in the air, and not one was solved. Raba
> observed: Is there any greatness in propounding problems? In the years
> of Rab Judah the whole study was confined to Nezikin,26 whilst we
> study a great deal even of 'Ukzin;27 and when Rab Judah came to the
> law, 'If a woman preserves vegetables in a pot' - or as others say,
> 'olives which were preserved with their leaves are clean,'28 - he
> observed, 'I see here the discussion of Rab and Samuel;'29 whilst we,
> on the other hand, have studied Ukzin at thirteen sessions, yet Rab
> Judah merely took off his shoes, and the rain came down,30 whilst we
> cry out [in supplication] but there is none to heed us. But it is
> because the Holy One, blessed be He, requires the heart, as it is
> written, But the Lord looketh on the heart.31
>
> R. Mesharsheya said: Doeg and Ahitophel did not comprehend legal
> discussions. Mar Zutra objected: Those of whom it is written, Where is
> the enumerator, where is the weigher? Where is he that counted the
> towers?32 yet you say that they did not comprehend legal discussions!
> - But their views were not in accordance with the halachah [final
> ruling], as it is written, The secret of the Lord is with them that
> fear him.33
>
> R. Ammi said: Doeg did not die until he forgot his learning,34 as it
> is written, He shall die without instruction, and in the greatness of
> his folly he shall go astray.35 R. Ashi said: He was smitten with
> leprosy, for it is said, Thou hast destroyed all them that go a
> whoring from thee;36 whilst elsewhere it is written, [And if it be not
> redeemed within the space of a full year, then the house . shall be
> established] la-zemithuth37 [to him that hath bought it],38 which we
> translate la-halutin39 [i.e., 'absolutely and definitely the
> purchasers']. And we learnt: The only difference between him who is a
> mezora' muhlat [definitely a leper] and one who is locked up [for
> observation] is in respect of letting the hair grow wild and tearing
> the garments.40
>
> R. Johanan said: Three destroying angels appeared before Doeg: one
> caused him to forget his learning, one burnt his soul, and the third
> scattered his ashes in the synagogues and schoolhouses. R. Johanan
> also said: Doeg and Ahitophel did not see each other [i.e., were not
> contemporaries], Doeg living in Saul's reign, Ahitophel in David's. R.
> Johanan also said: Doeg and Ahitophel did not live out half their
> days. It has been taught likewise: Bloody and deceitful men shall not
> live out half their days:41 Doeg's entire lifetime amounted only to
> thirty four years, and Ahitophel's to thirty three.
>
> R. Johanan also said: At first David called Ahitophel his teacher,
> then his companion [colleague], and finally his disciple. At first he
> called him his teacher, as it is written, But it was thou, a man mine
> equal, my guide, and mine acquaintance.42 Then his companions [as it
> is written] We took sweet counsel together, and walked into the house
> of God in company.43 Finally his disciple - Yea, mine own familiar
> friend, in whom I trusted,
>
> >In Gittin 56b-57a (not shown), it discusses Baalam (Jesus) again (see
> the
> >page Sanhedrin 106a-b for clarification of Jesus being Baalam). It
> says
> >that he was "raised" by "incantations." Jesus was "then asked: What
> is your
> >punishment? He replied: 'With boiling hot semen.'" (The footnote says
> >"Jesus" is being referred to here, to avoid any confusion.) It then
> states
> >their belief that there is a divine punishment given to non-Jews in
> an
> >after-life: "What is your punishment? They replied: 'With boiling hot
> >excrement, since a Master has said: Whoever mocks the words of the
> Sages
> >[Talmud] is punished with boiling hot excrement.'"
>
>  BT Gittin 56b (shown)
> in truth you are a king, since if you were not a king Jerusalem would
> not be delivered into your hand, as it is written, And Lebanon shall
> fall by a mighty one.1 'Mighty one' [is an epithet] applied only to a
> king, as it is written, And their mighty one shall be of themselves2
> etc.; and Lebanon refers to the Sanctuary, as it says, This goodly
> mountain and Lebanon.3 As for your question, why if you are a king, I
> did not come to you till now, the answer is that the biryoni among us
> did not let me. He said to him; If there is a jar of honey round which
> a serpent is wound, would they not break the jar to get rid of the
> serpent?4 He could give no answer. R. Joseph, or as some say R. Akiba,
> applied to him the verse, [God] turneth wise men backward and maketh
> their knowledge foolish.5 He ought to have said to him: We take a pair
> of tongs and grip the snake and kill it, and leave the jar intact.6
>
> At this point a messenger came to him from Rome saying, Up, for the
> Emperor is dead, and the notables of Rome have decided to make you
> head [of the State]. He had just finished putting on one boot. When he
> tried to put on the other he could not. He tried to take off the first
> but it would not come off. He said: What is the meaning of this? R.
> Johanan said to him: Do not worry: the good news has done it, as it
> says, Good tidings make the bone fat.7 What is the remedy? Let someone
> whom you dislike come and pass before you, as it is written, A broken
> spirit drieth up the bones.8 He did so, and the boot went on. He said
> to him: Seeing that you are so wise, why did you not come to me till
> now? He said: Have I not told you? - He retorted: I too have told you.
>
> He said; I am now going, and will send someone to take my place. You
> can, however, make a request of me and I will grant it. He said to
> him: Give me Jabneh and its Wise Men,9 and the family chain of Rabban
> Gamaliel,10 and physicians to heal R. Zadok. R. Joseph, or some say R.
> Akiba, applied to him the verse, '[God] turneth wise men backward and
> maketh their knowledge foolish'. He ought to have said to him; Let
> them [the Jews] off this time. He, however, thought that so much he
> would not grant, and so even a little would not be saved.
>
> How did the physicians heal R. Zadok? The first day they let him drink
> water in which bran had been soaked; on the next day water in which
> there had been coarse meal;11 on the next day water in which there had
> been flour, so that his stomach expanded little by little.
>
> Vespasian sent Titus who said, Where is their God, the rock in whom
> they trusted?12 This was the wicked Titus who blasphemed and insulted
> Heaven. What did he do? He took a harlot by the hand and entered the
> Holy of Holies and spread out a scroll of the Law and committed a sin
> on it. He then took a sword and slashed the curtain. Miraculously
> blood spurted out, and he thought that he had slain himself,13 as it
> says, Thine adversaries have roared in the midst of thine assembly,
> they have set up their ensigns for signs.14 Abba Hanan said: Who is a
> mighty one like unto thee, O Jah?15 Who is like Thee, mighty in
> self-restraint,16 that Thou didst hear the blaspheming and insults of
> that wicked man and keep silent? In the school of R. Ishmael it was
> taught; Who is like thee among the gods [elim]?17 Who is like thee
> among the dumb ones [illemim]. Titus further took the curtain and
> shaped it like a basket and brought all the vessels of the Sanctuary
> and put them in it, and then put them on board ship to go and triumph
> with them in his city, as it says, And withal I saw the wicked buried,
> and they that come to the grave and they that had done right went away
> from the holy place and were forgotten in the city.18 Read not keburim
> [buried] but kebuzim [collected]; read not veyishtakehu [and were
> forgotten] but veyishtabehu [and triumphed]. Some say that keburim
> [can be retained], because even things that were buried were disclosed
> to them. A gale sprang up at sea which threatened to wreck him. He
> said: Apparently the power of the God of these people is only over
> water. When Pharaoh came He drowned him in water, when Sisera came He
> drowned him in water. He is also trying to drown me in water. If he is
> really mighty, let him come up on the dry land and fight with me. A
> voice went forth from heaven saying; Sinner, son of sinner, descendant
> of Esau the sinner, I have a tiny creature in my world called a gnat.
> (Why is it called a tiny creature? Because it has an orifice for
> taking in but not for excreting.) Go up on the dry land and make war
> with it. When he landed the gnat came and entered his nose, and it
> knocked against his brain for seven years. One day as he was passing a
> blacksmith's it heard the noise of the hammer and stopped. He said; I
> see there is a remedy. So every day they brought a blacksmith who
> hammered before him. If he was a non-Jew they gave him four zuz, if he
> was a Jew they said, It is enough that you see the suffering of your
> enemy. This went on for thirty days, but then the creature got used to
> it.19 It has been taught: R. Phineas b. 'Aruba said; I was in company
> with the notables of Rome, and when he died they split open his skull
> and found there something like a sparrow two sela's in weight. A Tanna
> taught; Like a young dove two pounds in weight. Abaye said; We have it
> on record that its beak was of brass and its claws of iron. When he
> died he said: Burn me and scatter my ashes over the seven seas so that
> the God of the Jews should not find me and bring me to trial.
>
> Onkelos son of Kolonikos20 was the son of Titus's sister. He had a
> mind to convert himself to Judaism. He went and raised Titus from the
> dead by magical arts, and asked him; 'Who is most in repute in the
> [other] world? He replied: Israel. What then, he said, about joining
> them? He said: Their observances are burdensome and you will not be
> able to carry them out. Go and attack them in that world and you will
> be at the top as it is written, Her adversaries are become the head21
> etc.; whoever harasses Israel becomes head. He asked him
> Gittin 57a (shown)
> What is your punishment [in the other world]? He replied: What I
> decreed for myself. Every day my ashes are collected and sentence is
> passed on me and I am burnt and my ashes are scattered over the seven
> seas. He then went and raised Balaam by incantations. He asked him:
> Who is in repute in the other world? He replied: Israel. What then, he
> said, about joining them? He replied: Thou shalt not seek their peace
> nor their prosperity all thy days for ever.1 He then asked: What is
> your punishment? He replied: With boiling hot semen.2 He then went and
> raised by incantations the sinners of Israel.3 He asked them: Who is
> in repute in the other world? They replied: Israel. What about joining
> them? They replied: Seek their welfare, seek not their harm. Whoever
> touches them touches the apple of his eye. He said: What is your
> punishment? They replied: With boiling hot excrement, since a Master
> has said: Whoever mocks at the words of the Sages is punished with
> boiling hot excrement. Observe the difference between the sinners of
> Israel and the prophets of the other nations who worship idols. It has
> been taught: Note from this incident how serious a thing it is to put
> a man to shame, for God espoused the cause of Bar Kamza and destroyed
> His House and burnt His Temple.
>
> 'Through a cock and a hen Tur Malka was destroyed'. How? - It was the
> custom that when a bride and bridegroom were being escorted a cock and
> a hen were carried before them, as if to say, Be fruitful and multiply
> like fowls. One day a band of Roman soldiers passed by and took the
> animals from them, so the Jews fell on them and beat them. So they
> went and reported to the Emperor that the Jews were rebelling, and he
> marched against them. There came against them one Bar Daroma4 who was
> able to jump a mile, and slaughtered them. The Emperor took his crown
> and placed it on the ground, saying, Sovereign of all the world, may
> it please thee not to deliver me and my kingdom into the hands of one
> man. Bar Daroma was tripped up by his own utterance, as he said, Hast
> not thou, O God, cast us off and thou goest not forth, O God, with our
> hosts.5 But David also said thus? - David wondered if it could be so.
> He went into a privy and a snake came, and he dropped his gut [from
> fright] and died. The Emperor said: Since a miracle has been wrought
> for me, I will let them off this time. So he left them alone and went
> away. They began to dance about and eat and drink and they lit so many
> lamps that the impress of a seal could be discerned by their light a
> mile away from the place. Said the Emperor; Are the Jews making merry
> over me? And he again invaded them. R. Assi said; Three hundred
> thousand men with drawn swords went in to Tur Malka, and slaughtered
> for three days and three nights, while on the other side dancing and
> feasting was going on, and one did not know about the other.
>
> The Lord hath swallowed up all the habitations of Jacob and hath not
> pitied.6 When Rabin came he said in the name of R. Johanan; These are
> the sixty thousand myriads of cities which King Jannai had in the
> King's Mountain.7 For R. Judah said in the name of R. Assi: King
> Jannai had sixty myriads of cities in the King's Mountain, and in each
> of them was a population as large as that of the Exodus, save in three
> of them which had double as many. These were Kefar Bish,8 Kefar
> Shihlayim,9 and Kefar Dikraya.10 [The first was called] Kefar Bish
> [evil village] because they never gave hospitality to visitors. The
> second was called Kefar Shihlayim because they made their living from
> shihlayim [watercress]. Kefar Dikraya [village of males] according to
> R. Johanan, was so called because women used to bear males first and
> finally a girl and then no more. 'Ulla said: I have seen that place,
> and it would not hold even sixty myriads of reeds. A certain Min said
> to R. Hanina: You tell a lot of lies.11 He replied: Palestine is
> called 'land of the deer'.12 Just as the skin of the hind cannot hold
> its flesh,13 so the Land of Israel when it is inhabited can find room
> but when it is not inhabited it contracts.
>
> Once when R. Manyumi b. Helkiah and R. Helkiah b. Tobiah and R. Huna
> b. Hiyya were sitting together they said: If anyone knows anything
> about Kefar Sekania of Egypt,14 let him say. One of them thereupon
> said; Once a betrothed couple [from there] were carried off by
> heathens who married them to one another. The woman said: I beg of you
> not to touch me, as I have no Kethubah15 from you. So he did not touch
> her till his dying day. When he died, she said: Mourn for this man who
> has kept his passions in check more than Joseph, because Joseph was
> exposed to temptation only a short time, but this man every day.
> Joseph was not in one bed with the woman but this man was; in Joseph's
> case she was not his wife, but here she was. The next then began and
> said: On one occasion forty bushels [of coin] were selling for a
> denar, and the number went down one, and they investigated and found
> that a man and his son had had intercourse with a betrothed maiden on
> the Day of Atonement, so they brought them to the Beth din and they
> stoned them and the original price was restored. The third then began
> and said: There was a man who wanted to divorce his wife, but
> hesitated because she had a big marriage settlement. He accordingly
> invited his friends16 and gave them a good feast and made them drunk
> and put them all in one bed. He then brought the white of an egg and
> scattered it among them and brought witnesses17 and appealed to the
> Beth din. There was a certain elder there of the disciples of Shammai
> the Elder, named Baba b. Buta, who said: This is what I have been
> taught by Shammai the Elder, that the white of an egg contracts when
> brought near the fire, but semen becomes faint from the fire. They
> tested it and found that it was so, and they brought the man to the
> Beth din and flogged him and made him pay her Kethubah. Said Abaye to
> R. Joseph: Since they were so virtuous, why were they punished? - He
> replied: Because they did not mourn for Jerusalem, as it is written;
> Rejoice ye with Jerusalem and be glad for her, all ye that love her,
> rejoice for joy with her all ye that mourn over her.18
>
> 'Through the shaft of a litter Bethar19 was destroyed.' It was the
> custom when a boy was born to plant a cedar tree and when a girl was
> born to plant a pine tree, and when they married, the tree was cut
> down and a canopy made of the branches. One day the daughter of the
> Emperor was passing when the shaft of her litter broke, so they lopped
> some branches off a cedar tree and brought it to her. The Jews
> thereupon fell upon them and beat them. They reported to the Emperor
> that the Jews were rebelling, and he marched against them.
>
> He hath cut off in fierce anger all the horn of Israel.20 R. Zera said
> in the name of R. Abbahu who quoted R. Johanan: These are the eighty
> [thousand]21 battle trumpets which assembled in the city of Bethar
> when it was taken and men, women and children were slain in it until
> their blood ran into the great sea. Do you think this was near? It was
> a whole mil22 away. It has been taught: R. Eleazar the Great said:
> There are two streams in the valley of Yadaim,23 one running in one
> direction and one in another, and the Sages estimated that [at that
> time] they ran with two parts water to one of blood. In a Baraitha it
> has been taught: For seven years the Gentiles fertilised24 their
> vineyards with the blood of Israel without using manure.
>
> >Abodah Zara 26b (Page Viewer): ". . . minim [Gentiles*], informers,
> and
> >apostates may be cast in [a deep pit from which they cannot climb
> out], and
> >need not be brought up" (Talmud's emphasis). *Note: The Jewish
> Encyclopedia
> >clarifies that minim is used in reference to non-Jews.
> <_______________________
>
> Avoda Zara 26b
> though they must not be cast in, but minim,1 informers, and apostates
> may be cast in, and need not be brought up.' Whereupon R. Johanan
> remarked: I have been learning that the words, And so shalt thou do
> with every lost thing of thy brother's [thou mayest not hide
> thyself],2 are also applicable to an apostate, and you say he may be
> thrown down; leave out apostates! Could he not have answered that the
> one might apply to the kind of apostate who eats carrion meat to
> satisfy his appetite,3 and the other to an apostate who eats carrion
> meat to provoke? - In his opinion, an apostate eating carrion meat to
> provoke is the same as a min.4
>
> It has been stated: [In regard to the term] apostate there is a
> divergence of opinion between R. Aha and Rabina; one says that [he who
> eats forbidden food] to satisfy his appetite, is an apostate, but [he
> who does it] to provoke is a 'min'; while the other says that even
> [one who does it] to provoke is merely an apostate. - And who is a
> 'min'? - One who actually worships idols.5
>
> An objection was raised: If one eats a flea or a gnat he is an
> apostate. Now such a thing could only be done to provoke, and yet we
> are taught that he is merely an apostate! - Even in that case he may
> just be trying to see what a forbidden thing tastes like.
>
> The Master said: 'They may be cast in and need not be brought up' - if
> they may be cast in need it be said that they need not be brought up?
> - Said R. Joseph b. Hama in the name of R. Shesheth: What is meant to
> convey is that if there was a step in the pit-wall, one may scrape it
> away, giving as a reason for doing so, the prevention of cattle being
> lured by the step to get unto the pit. Raba and R. Joseph both of them
> said: It means to convey that if there is a stone lying by the pit
> opening, one may cover the pit with it, saying that he does it for
> [the safety] of passing animals. Rabina said: It is meant to convey
> that if there is a ladder there, he may remove it, saying, I want it
> for getting my son down from a roof.
>
> Our Rabbis taught: An Israelite may perform a circumcision on a
> heathen for the purpose of becoming a proselyte - thus excluding [the
> purpose of] removing a morana.6 But a heathen should not [be allowed
> to] perform circumcision on an Israelite, because he is liable to take
> his life. This is the opinion of R. Meir. The Sages said: A heathen
> may circumcise an Israelite, so long as others are standing by him,
> but not while he is on his own.7 R. Meir, however, said: Not even when
> others are standing by, for he may find occasion to let the knife slip
> and so sterilise him. Does then R. Meir hold the opinion that a
> heathen is not [to be allowed to circumcise]? But the opposite is
> proved by the following: In a town where there is no Jewish physician,
> but there is a physician who is a Cuthean as well as one who is an
> idolater, circumcision should be performed by the idolater but not by
> the Cuthean.8 This is the opinion of R. Meir. R. Judah, however, said:
> It should be performed by the Cuthean but not by the idolater?9 -
> Reverse [the names]: R. Meir holding that the Cuthean and not the
> idolater should circumcise, and R. Judah holding the idolater and not
> the Cuthean. Does then R. Judah hold that it is in order for an
> idolater to do so? Surely it has been taught: R. Judah said: Whence
> can it be deduced that circumcision performed by a heathen is invalid?
> From this verse, And as for thee, thou shalt keep my covenant!10 -
> Indeed, do not reverse, but say that we are here dealing
>
> <Nedarim 23b (Page Viewer). Here we see the Jewish oath of Kol Nidre.
>
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
>
> <This is an oath that they recite every year. It justifies the
> absolvement
> <of any agreements made with respect to non-Jews during the course of
> the
> <following year. It says, "And he who desires that none of his vows
> made
> <during the year shall be valid, let him stand at the beginning of the
> year
> <and declare, 'Every vow which I make in the future shall be null.'"
> <_______________________
>
> The text is defective, and this is what was taught: He who desires his
> friend to eat with him, and after urging him, imposes a vow upon him,
> it is 'a vow of incitement [and hence invalid]. And he who desires
> that none of his vows made during the year shall be valid, let him
> stand at the beginning of the year and declare, 'Every vow which I may
> make in the future shall be null.1 [HIS VOWS ARE THEN INVALID,]
> PROVIDING THAT HE REMEMBERS THIS AT THE TIME OF THE VOW. But if he
> remembers, he has cancelled the declaration and confirmed the vow?2 -
> Abaye answered: Read: providing that it is not remembered at the time
> of the vow. Raba said, After all, it is as we said originally.3 Here
> the circumstances are e.g., that one stipulated at the beginning of
> the year, but does not know in reference to what. Now he vows. Hence,
> if he remembers [the stipulation] and he declares: 'I vow in
> accordance with my original intention', his vow has no reality. But if
> he does not declare thus, he has cancelled his stipulation and
> confirmed his vow.
>
> R. Huna b. Hinena wished to lecture thereon [sc. anticipatory
> cancellation] at the public session. But Raba remonstrated with him:
> The Tanna has intentionally obscured the law,4 in order that vows
> should not be lightly treated, whilst you desire to teach it publicly!
>
> The scholars propounded: Do the Rabbis disagree with R. Eliezer b.
> Jacob or not?5 And should you say that they differ, is the halachah
> like him or not?6 - Come and hear: For we learnt: If one says to his
> neighbour
>
> <Sanhedrin 57a (Page Viewer): "'With respect to robbery--if one stole
> or
> <robbed or (seized) a beautiful woman, or (committed) similar
> offenses, if
> <(these were perpetrated) by one Cuthean [Gentile] against another,
> (the
> <theft, etc.) must not be kept, and likewise (the theft) of an
> Israelite by a
> <Cuthean, but that of a Cuthean by an Israelite may be retained'? . .
> . 'For
> <murder, whether of a Cuthean by a Cuthean, or of an Israelite by a
> Cuthean,
> <punishment is incurred; but of a Cuthean by an Israelite, there is no
> death
> <penalty'?" Footnote 5: "'Cuthean' (Samaritan) was here substituted by
> the
> >censor for the original goy (heathen) [non-Jew]" (emphasis added).
> <_
>
> Sanhedrin 57a
> for it is written, The earth also was corrupt before God;1  and a
> Tanna of the School of R. Ishmael taught: Wherever corruption is
> mentioned, it must refer to immorality and idolatry.2  'Immorality.'
> as it is written, for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.3
>  'Idolatry,' for it is written, Lest ye corrupt yourselves and make
> you a graven image, etc.4  And the other teacher [who deduces this
> from the verse, and the Lord God commanded etc.]?5  He maintains that
> this verse [sc. the earth also etc.] merely describes their way of
> living.6  'Bloodshed', as it is written, Whoso sheddeth man's blood,
> etc.7  And the other?8  - This verse [he will maintain] merely teaches
> the manner of execution.9  Robbery, for it is written, As the wild
> herbs have I given you all things;10 upon which R. Levi commented: as
> the wild herbs, but not as the cultivated herbs.11 And the other?12 -
> He will hold that this verse is written to permit animal flesh,13 [but
> not to prohibit robbery]. Flesh cut from the living animal, as it is
> written, But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof,
> shall ye not eat.14 And the other?15 - He may hold that this verse
> teaches that flesh cut from live reptiles is permitted.16
> Emasculation, for it is written, Bring forth abundantly in the earth,
> and multiply therein.17 And the other?18 - He may regard this merely
> as a blessing.19 Forbidden mixture, as it is said, Of fowls after
> their kind.20 And the other?21 - He will maintain that this was merely
> for the sake of mating.22
>
> R. Joseph said, The scholars23 stated: A heathen is executed for the
> violation of three precepts - Mnemonic G Sh R-24 viz., adultery,
> bloodshed, and blasphemy. R. Shesheth objected: Now bloodshed is
> rightly included, since it is written, Whoso sheddeth the blood of
> man, by man shall his blood be shed;25 but whence do we know the
> others? If they are derived from bloodshed,26 the other four should
> also be included; whilst if their inclusion is taught by the extending
> phrase any man,27 should not idolatry too be included?28 But R.
> Shesheth said thus: The scholars stated, A heathen is executed for the
> violation of four precepts [including idolatry]. But is a heathen
> executed for idolatry? Surely it has been taught: With respect to
> idolatry, such acts for which a Jewish court decrees sentence of death
> [on Jewish delinquents] are forbidden to the heathen. This implies
> that they are merely forbidden, but their violation is not punished by
> death! - R. Nahman b. Isaac answered: Their prohibition is their death
> sentence.29
>
> R. Huna, Rab Judah, and all the disciples of Rab maintained: A heathen
> is executed for the violation of the seven Noachian laws; the Divine
> Law having revealed this of one [murder], it applies to all. Now is a
> heathen executed for robbery? Has it not been taught: 'With respect to
> robbery - if one stole or robbed30 or [seized] a beautiful woman,31 or
> [committed] similar offences,32 if [these were perpetrated] by one
> Cuthean33 against another, [the theft, etc.] must not be kept, and
> likewise [the theft] of an Israelite by a Cuthean, but that of a
> Cuthean by an Israelite may be retained'?34 But if robbery is a
> capital offence, should not the Tanna have taught: He incurs a
> penalty? - Because the second clause wishes to state, 'but that of a
> Cuthean by an Israelite may be retained,' therefore the former clause
> reads, '[theft of an Israelite by a Cuthean] must not be kept.'35 But
> where a penalty is incurred, it is explicitly stated, for the
> commencing clause teaches: 'For murder, whether of a Cuthean by a
> Cuthean, or of an Israelite by a Cuthean, punishment is incurred; but
> of a Cuthean by an Israelite, there is no death penalty'?36 - How else
> could that clause have been taught? Could he state, 'forbidden' .
> 'permitted'? Surely it has been taught; A Cuthean and a [Jewish]
> shepherd of small cattle [sheep, goats, etc.]37 need neither be
> rescued [from a pit] nor may they be thrown [therein]!38 'And similar
> acts.' To what can this apply in the case of robbery? - R. Aha b.
> Jacob answered: To a worker in a vineyard [who eats of the grapes].
> When so? If his is the finishing work, it is permitted?39 If it is not
> the finishing work, is it not actual robbery?40 - But R. Papa said:
> This applies to [the theft of] an article worth less than a perutah.41
> But if so, why say that such robbery of a Jew by a Cuthean must not be
> kept: does he not forgive him?42 - Though he later forgives him, he is
> grieved when it occurs [therefore it is prohibited] - But how can you
> say that such robbery by one Cuthean from another is but a 'similar
> act' [i.e., bordering on robbery]: since a Cuthean does not forgive,43
> is it not actual theft? - But R. Aha, the son of R. Ika answered; It
> applies to the withholding of a labourer's wage.44 One Cuthean from
> another, or a Cuthean from an Israelite is forbidden, but an Israelite
> from a Cuthean is permitted.45 To what can 'a similar act' apply in
> the case of a beautiful woman? - When R. Dimi came,46 he said in the
> name of R. Eleazar in the name of R. Hanina: To a heathen who allotted
> a bondwoman to his slave [for concubinage] and then took her for
> himself, for this he is executed.47
>
> 'A similar act', however, is not taught with reference to murder.48
> Abaye said: If it should be, however, that it is so taught, it would
> be in accordance with R. Jonathan b. Saul. For it has been taught; If
> one was pursuing his neighbour to slay him, and the latter could have
> saved himself by maiming a limb [of the pursuer, e.g., his foot], and
> did not thus save himself [but killed him instead],
>
> <Jewish Encyclopedia, Vol. X, p. 619, "Gentile" (Page Viewer): ". . .
> they
> <held that only Israelites are men, quoting the prophet, 'Ye my flock,
> the
> <flock of my pasture, are men' (Ezek. xxxiv, 31); Gentiles they
> classed not
> <as men but as barbarians [Baba Mezia 108b]" (emphasis added).
>
> Emphasis added on bullshit.
>
> Baba Metzia 108b
> otherwise it is mere evasion.1
> A gift is not subject to the law of pre-emption. Said Amemar: But if
> he [the donor] promised2 security of tenure,3 it is subject thereto.4
> When one sells all his property to one person, the law of pre-emption
> does not apply.5 [Likewise, if it is sold] to its original owner, it
> is not subject to the law of pre-emption. If one purchases from or
> sells to a heathen, there is no law of pre-emption. 'If one purchases
> from a heathen' - because he [the purchaser] can say to him [the
> abutting neighbour], 'I have driven away a lion from your boundaries.'
> 'If he sells to a heathen' - because a heathen is certainly not
> subject to [the exhortation], 'And thou shalt do that which is right
> and good in the sight of the Lord.' Nevertheless, he [the vendor] is
> placed under a ban, until he accepts responsibility for any injury
> that might ensue through him [the heathen]. A mortgage is not subject
> to the law of pre-emption. For R. Ashi said: The elders of Matha
> Mehasia told me, What is the meaning of mashkanta [a pledge,
> mortgage]? That it abides with him [the mortgagee].6 What is its
> practical bearing? In respect to pre-emption. When one sells [an
> estate] that is far [from the vendor's domicile] in order to buy one
> that is near, or an inferior property to repurchase a better, the law
> of pre-emption does not apply.7 [When an estate is sold] for polltax,
> alimony [of a widow and her daughters] and funeral expenses, the law
> of pre-emption does not apply, for the Nehardeans said: For poll-tax,
> alimony, and funeral expenses an estate is sold without public
> announcement.8 [A sale] to a woman, orphans, or a partner is not
> subject to the law of pre-emption.9
>
> Of urban neighbours and rural neighbours, the former have priority;10
> of a neighbour [but not of the field to be sold] and a scholar, the
> latter takes precedence; of a relative and a scholar, the latter has
> priority. The scholars propounded: What of a neighbour and a relative?
> - Come and hear: Better is a neighbour that is near that a brother
> that is far off.11
>
> If one offers well-formed coins, and the other full - weight coins,12
> the law of pre-emption does not apply. If these [the coins of the
> abutting neighbour] are bound up, and those [of the purchaser]
> unsealed, there is no pre-emption.13 If he [the neighbour] says, 'I
> will go, take trouble, and bring money;' we do not wait for him. But
> if he says, 'I will go and bring money;' we consider: if he is a man
> of substance, who can go and bring the money [without delay], we wait
> for him; if not, we do not wait for him.
>
> If the land belongs to one and the buildings [upon it] to another, the
> former can restrain the latter,14 but the latter cannot restrain the
> former.15 If the land belongs to one and the palm-trees [upon it] to
> another, the former can restrain the latter, but the latter cannot
> restrain the former. [If a stranger wishes to purchase] the land for
> building houses, and [the abutting neighbour wants] the land for
> sowing, habitation is more important; and there is no law of
> pre-emption. If a rocky ridge or a plantation of young palm trees lay
> between [the fields], we consider: If he [the abutting neighbour] can
> enter therein even with a single furrow,16 it is subject to the law of
> pre-emption, but not otherwise.17 If one of four neighbours [on the
> four sides of a field] forestalled the others, the sale is valid; but
> if they all come together, it [the field] is divided diagonally.
> _______________________________
>
> Like I said yesterday, Alex, give it up, a talmid khakham
> you're not, and never will be.

Are you trying to tell us that Alex has never received
semicha?  I mean the guy has been putting in many
years of long study into learning the Talmud and all
that.  You mean that in the end, he has nothing to
show for it?

Jim F.

>
> Deborah