Re: Man, Mr. bush Jr. sure is wicked evil eh?

 jmfbahciv wrote:
> My apologies, Bill.  I didn't intend to stop your discussion flow.
> It's very interesting and happens to coincide with my latest mess
> prevention project :-).

No appologies required.  I already have learnt a lot by seeing others views
on this interesting topic - although it is off physics.

Mat Merron (correctly in my opinon) wrote:
> >Economic rationalism is what you get when you reject ideologies and
> >base your decisions on what produces economic results.  Unfortunately,
> >people fight the notoin tooth and nail, so conversion take many, many
> >years.
>

jmfbahciv wrote:
> There was a show on TV last night (PBS) that claimed the fall
> of Greek civilization, namely, Athens, took a long time to do
> this.  According to the show, their last futile attempt at
> ensuring their ideology was to sentence Aristotle to death
> because he'ld been teaching facts of economic life.  Somehow,
> it appeared that he was made into a martyr after the fact.
> Is the USA the Spartus for Islam?

I do not think so.  In the end, one way or another, terrorism will be wiped
out.  It will take time, a lot of effort, and probably more suffering than I
care to contemplate.  But the message of history is clear.  The only system
that works is democratic capitalism.  Countries that refuse to embrace it
will be at an economic disadvantage to countries that do.  For example the
Taliban rule was simply not sustainable eg how can you compete economically
when you dictate that 50% of your population (the women) can't participate
in it?  As time goes by they will simply be left behind by countries that
are more realistic.  And that IMHO is the root cause of it all.  Modern
western civilization, by gradually concentrating on economic efficiency and
its benefits, has surpassed the Islamic world.  I have no doubt that
consciously or subconsciously they realize that and if they do not change
they will become increasingly marginalized.  However changing the culture
and beliefs of centuries is no easy task - it is no wonder they resent the
west - if it was not for them they would be able to continue to hold their
cherished beliefs.

Mat Meorron said
> >That's a belief which is currently held by a large part of the western
> >population (especially a vast majority of the so called
> >"intelligentsia").
>

jmfbahciv wrote:
> That's because there's no immediate gratification of power
> acquisition in it.  That's because such thinking is productive.
> The heavens forbid that ordinary people do useful work without
> regulation wrapping for free.

Having entered into discourse with modern intelligencer (I did a course in
philosophy a few years ago now and have contact with them at work) when you
bring up the pragmatic points that I do I was labeled materialistic.  They
simply have a different way of viewing things.  For example one greenie, who
found out I worked for the police at one time, called me the enemy.  I asked
why she thought the police were the enemy?  She said it was because they
stopped her from protesting.  I explained they were just enforcing the law,
it is the laws she should object to.  However she seemed to require someone
she could immediately point to as the cause of her troubles - and the police
were handy (actually I suspect a lot of greenies are like that - they really
long for a simpler life where things were not as complicated).

Thanks
Bill