Re: Man, Mr. bush Jr. sure is wicked evil eh?

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>>   [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Bill Hobba" 
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

My apologies, Bill.  I didn't intend to stop your discussion flow.
It's very interesting and happens to coincide with my latest mess
prevention project :-).

>>>>Mat Merron wrote:
>>>>> True.  However, here is one difference between a modern terrorist
>>>>> movement and past revolutionary processes (such as the French and
>>>>> Russian revolutions).  To run an actual revolution you need mass
>>>>> support, i.e. support of the masses (sorry, couldn't resist, it 
sounds
>>>>> too good:-)).  On the other hand, you can run something like Al Quida
>>>>> with no more than few thousand active members and, say, few tens of
>>>>> thousands "active sympathizers", and such numbers can be recruited
>>>>> from "leadership classes" alone.
>>>>
>>>>Yep - without doubt.  But one must question how long a movement will 
last
>>>>without mass support.  And from information I have 
>>>>seen in the press it is
>>>>supported by the economically impoverished Muslims.
>>>
>>>As well as, apparently, some very wealthy ones, in Saudi Arabia.
>>>
>>>>  That is the point I am
>>>>making - unless it is supported by the masses it 
>>>>will eventually fizzle out.
>>>
>>>Yes, that's true.  Eventually.  
>>>
>>>>My observation is that Al Quida knows this only too 
>>>>well and times it press releases and attempted action 
>>>>to attract the greatest support.  
>>
>>[piggybacking the post]  
>>
>>Did you notice the time when Al Quida switched to using
>>Palenstinians as their poster boy?  People don't seem to
>>recall a time when the Palestinians weren't on their agenda.
>>It's as if there was a mass hypnosis command.
>>
>People have short memories and even shorter attention spans.

I spent some time trying to figure which one was the epsilon.
I had an arugment with somebody _at the time it happened_. 
He argued as if the Palestinians had been Al Queda's primary
reason to go into terrorism business.


>>>> ...However due to the nature of terrorism you do 
>>>>not know which of the actions is going to
>>>>be the 99% that get caught or the 1% that succeed.  
>>>>Exactly what effect this
>>>>will have on the long term viability of the 
>>>>movement only time will tell.
>>>>
>>>> Mat Merron wrote:
>>>>> Question is how to get them out of this vicious circle, other then
>>>>> through brutal, "30 years war" type of processes.  Unfortunately we
>>>>> don't have the luxury of being able to say "lets just wait till they
>>>>> come to their senses" since this may take few generations and the
>>>>> amount of damage that can be done within this time can't be even
>>>>> estimated.
>>>>
>>>>I think we both know the answer (economic rationalism) - but that takes
>>>>time.
>>>
>>>Aye, that's the problem:-(
>>
>>Have mercy on this poor brain of mine.  What is economic 
>>rationalism?
>
>Economic rationalism is what you get when you reject ideologies and 
>base your decisions on what produces economic results.  Unfortunately, 
>people fight the notoin tooth and nail, so conversion take many, many 
>years.

There was a show on TV last night (PBS) that claimed the fall
of Greek civilization, namely, Athens, took a long time to do
this.  According to the show, their last futile attempt at 
ensuring their ideology was to sentence Aristotle to death
because he'ld been teaching facts of economic life.  Somehow,
it appeared that he was made into a martyr after the fact.
Is the USA the Spartus for Islam?
>>
>>>
>>>>  It is much easer to seek short term gratification in religion than a
>>>>long term solution that goes against your cultural 
>>>>background - that is just
>>>>human nature.
>>>>
>>>Yes, all history points to this.  Still, as Churchill (I think) once 
>>>wrote, "people will do the reasonable think once all other 
>>>possibilities have been exhausted".  Only (again) this takes time.
>>
>>I figure two generations.
>
>In the best case, yes.

If it's not two generations, we'll be cold starting.

>
>>  Meanwhile, it would be prudent to have
>>in place backup plans and procedures to make a jump start possible.
>>Most, if not all, of these plans are a subset of what is needed 
>>to make a cold start.  
>
>Before this, it'll be prudent to realize that we do not have the 
>option to sit and do nothing for the couple generation it'll take. 

I reached that step a long time ago.  There doesn't seem to be
much I can do about the ones downstairs...and, oh, have I tried.
 
>That's a belief which is currently held by a large part of the western 
>population (especially a vast majority of the so called 
>"intelligentsia").

That's because there's no immediate gratification of power
acquisition in it.  That's because such thinking is productive.
The heavens forbid that ordinary people do useful work without
regulation wrapping for free.
>
>>
>>Just as an aside:  I'm watching evil white stuff fall down past 
>>my window.  Snow is a 4-letter word.
>>
>My, you start early this year.


[very grumpy emoticon here]  Not by my design.  If the ground
had been frozen, I'd have had two inches here.

/BAH

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