Re: Man, Mr. bush Jr. sure is wicked evil eh?

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:04:20 +1000, "Bill Hobba" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Thom wrote:
>> Yes and their leader, George Bush just landed in Australia and will be
>> dining with the PM, John Howard where Bush will throw another chump on
>> the barbie.
>
>Being an Australian and working for the government I have been assured by
>people who are in a position to know that John Howard did not really have
>much choice in the matter (no I can not name my source - he would be most
>offended if I did - rest assured he is highly placed and in a job that would
>be privy to such information). 

None of us have any doubt that Howard is depending on the USA for
defence against the "threat" north of us.  I have no doubt that his
involvment in ET, Afghanistan and Iraq is to create a debt the
Americans owe us.

BUT can they pay off?  With the delivery of the Sukhoi SU-27's and
30MK's the Indonesian AF now has more advanced aircraft than the
Australia Defence Forces' FB-111 and F-18 or the American F-18 and
F-14.  Add to that the Russian S-300 missile system which was
specfically designed to take out the American F-111's and air
superiority in the region is lost to the bad guys.

> Our opposition can babble all it wants that
>we can still be Americas friend without supporting it 100% but if Australia
>ever really got into trouble it is America we would turn to - 

Again can the USN Navy pay off?  Given the positioning of the SU's I
see their role in the very near future as an air weapon that will be
used to stabilize Indonesian occupation of West Papua and when and if
all hell breaks loose with another serious war they will move on to
take Papua NG and retake East Timore and there is nothing we can do
about it.

>I have no
>doubt that if the current opposition was in power they would have done the
>same thing - and if John Howard was in opposition he probably would have
>made similar statements to Simon Crean (not always of case - Kim Beasley
>fully supported our involvement in East Timor - but that is a rareity that
>bucks the odds).

The "Opposition" thing is quite true indeed and since most Americans
don't even know how the Westminster system works much less understand
the little ins and outs they will not have an appreciation for the
system.

Most Australians are not against America or Americans but can't stand
George Bush, especially the VN Veterans.  Even the Greens temper their
criticism to Bush and not the USA in most cases.  However the latest
insult to Australia by Bush has really got all the parties up in arms,
that being the fact he gave a press conference to the Indonesians but
refuses to give one to the media of his ally.
>
>Thom wrote:
>> which is why so many on this newsgroup object to the Bush
>> Administration and its BS
>
>And they are certainly entitled to their opinion.  But you seem to be
>confused between pragmatic necessity and ideology - I suggest it is
>pragmatic necessity that is the stronger determinant.  BTW I was not a
>supporter of the Iraq invasion - but given the climate at the time did I
>think America would do anything less? NO.

I support Afghanistan but not Iraq.
>
>Thom wrote:
>> you mean like low wages and high profits???
>
>Are you sure your real issue is with American foreign policy or capitalism?
>If it is against capitalism please point out the alternate economic system
>that has delivered greater benefit?  

>Russia under Stalin?  Fascism?  China
>under Mao?  The highly socialist Scandinavian courtiers that are finding it
>harder and harder to financially support their model?  I really would like
>to know.

Try Australia in 1985.  Remember when the cost of a new home was only
3 times the average wage?  The little Johnny got in, turned his back
while the greedy developers jumped it to 6 times and in the great
housing boom in the last 11 months it shot up to 9 times.  What was
the Treasurers' response?  "But think of all the wealth thatw as
created for average Australians".  What kind of fool believes that?

Lets also look at a better health system (before Howard started to
destroy it), high wages against the cost of living, better public
transport, less traffic, more services for the tax dollar, (I'd love
to blame the drought on him but I won't)   and of course the lower
taxes under LABOR compared with the huge taxes we pay under the GST
and Howard.

I didn't something very naughty the week before the GST.  I logged
every thing I did and every pence I spent for a week.  Two weeks after
the GST I did the EXACT same thing and guess what?  Despite all the
Howard lies everything except an imported jar os American Skippy
peanut butter went way up!  It average 17.5% and some stuff went up
24% over night.

I'd like to turn the clock back to 1985-88 thank you.  Answer your
question?

also communism and capitalism are both failed economic systems,
neither has produced a universal standard of living and given the
highs and lows of existance its not much different than medevil Europe
with the "Me Lords" in the castles and the surfs around them.

THOM
>
>Thanks
>Bill
>
>
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