Re: Phonetic question

"Dan Rempel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> If we use N for the velar nasal (as in /siNr/) and save g for the usual
> voiced velar stop my point is (I hope) easier to see. The word singer
> has no /g/ (at least in my dialect; Paul Blay says he pronounces it
> something like /siNgr/); it's just /siNr/, one segment, and the g is an
> artifact of the spelling. OTOH finger is pronounced /fiNgr/: there's two
> segments, a nasal and a /g/.
>
> > But in the word "younger," although the stem, "young," is
> > pronounced with a nasalized "ng" just like the stem "sing" of "singer,"
> > adding the "er" causes the g to double as a hard g. My suggestion in
rules 2
> > and 3 above is that this is because one is a verb and the other an
> > adjective. I can't think of any exceptions to this rule but I invite
others
> > to try.
>
> Yeah, I don't have an explanation for the /g/ in younger; maybe the
> spelling is representing an older pronunciation, in which the /g/ was
> always pronounced, and the /n/ was velarized by assimilation, and we've
> just lost many of the actual /g/ segments over time.

It's also true for longer and stronger. I just think it is a verb/adjective
distinction so far as I can tell (not that such a distinction makes any
logical sense, but it's good enough to lay down a rule) and I haven't heard
anyone come up with any exceptions regarding this verb/adjective
distinction.

I'd be curious to know what a native speaker who isn't privy to this
conversation or my proposed rule would do if, for example, you said, "I'm
going to give you a new word 'jing' that means exactly the same thing as
smart. Now, use this new word 'jing' to convey the following, 'John is
smarter than Steve.'" I'll bet most people would answer "John is jinger than
Steve" and pronounce 'jing' with a hard g (you might also have to forbid
constucting the comparative with the word "more.") And then I'll bet if you
did the same hypothetical but defined jing as a verb they would call someone
who "jings," a "jinger," pronounced without the hard g.

Maybe the explanation is that psychologically the hard g just has more oomph
to it and conveys the comparative more strongly or something, almost like a
tiny onomatopoeia hidden within the comparative form.

Jeff