TURMEL: #3 Montreal Seminar on Alternative Currencies

JCT: A few were worried I'd go after Bernard Lietaer 

>Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 22:04:03 -0600
>From: Cal Schindel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Turmel to attend Montreal Seminar
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> JCT: Cal, I'll send you $100US to $1 that you can't cite 
> one flaw that anyone has ever found at any time in my 
> UNILETS time-based currency... So Cal, you think I need 
> help somewhere in my understand of the banking system 
> engineering, do you? Put your no-money where your mouth
> is... But you insist on tailor-fitting your shoe to your 
> mouth, so go  ahead. Put up or shut up and bite your foot. 
  
CS: Well John, I must admit that you have not only met my 
expectations; you have exceeded them by a wide margin. Cal

JCT: You had to know I'd tell you to put your money where 
your mouth was and make you back down when you endorsed 
anyone you think knows more about banking systems 
engineering than I do. What did you expect? A learned 
discourse on why Bernard the Banker is weak and John The 
Engineer is strong? You've got a choice of 8 errors I've 
alleged he has made that you may challenge me on. You can't;
he can't; and now you suggest I need to study his words? 
When he hasn't deigned to study mine? 

As The Engineer who made the UNILETS resolution C6 on the 
Millennium Declaration for an Alternative Time-based 
currency, it was a thrill to have such a seminar hosted in 
my own country. That they were unaware of this Canadian's 
contribution to the alternative currency promotion at the 
United Nations goes to show how strong the system appears to 
people without even needing The Engineer to prove it all. 

Wednesday Nov 19
----------------

Abolitionist Tom Kennedy also attended the seminar but 
because I missed a connection, we arrived a little late 
though we caught both speakers on how investors are helping 
ensure their money goes to useful projects. It's a useful 
angle if the shortage of national finance can never be 
filled. 

Thursday Nov 20
---------------

JCT: Before the hearing, I was speaking about LETS when a 
girl came up to ask if I was John Turmel. It was Wendy 
Lloyd-Smith who had contacted me earlier this year about 
getting a copy of the Robin Johanssen UK video on the LETS 
economy for a presentation on starting up a new LETS in 
Montreal. She had started up her Notre Dame de Grace LETS 
and had paid to attend the conference with NDG Greendollars. 
Darn, I should have used my Abolitionist Party LETS dollars. 

Bernard Lietaer was one of the featured speaker in the 
opening plenary session. Tom Kennedy reports:

>Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Interim Report re: Int'l Seminar + Mini-Conference
 
TK: Interim Report on The International Seminar About 
Financial Responsibilities and UsuryFree Community 
Currencies at UQAM By Tommy-Usury: Free
 
The Seminar began on Wednesday, November 19th, and continues 
until noon on Saturday, November 22nd, 2003. After 
Registration, welcome addresses were presented on Wednesday 
evening. On Thursday morning the opening key-note address 
was given by Bernard Lietaer http://www.transaction.net who 
is President of Access Foundation 
http://www.accessfoundation.org He is also author of nine 
books on money and finances, including "The Future of Money" 
(Random House, 2001), "The Mystery of Money" (Riemann 
Verlag, 2000) and a book for kids, called 'The World of 
Money' (Arena Verlag, 2001) and "Human Wealth, Beyond Greed 
and Scarcity" to be published, December 2003.
  
Formerly professor of international finance at the 
University of Louvain, Bernard Lietaer is currently a fellow 
at the Center for Sustainable Resources at the University of 
California, Berkeley and beginning in the fall of 2003 he 
accepted to become professor at Naropa University, Boulder, 
Colorado.
 
Bernard presented evidence that many countries of the world 
are currently experiencing an economic downturn. He briefly 
outlined two solutions being pursued to cut deficits at the 
various levels of government. The first solution, most often 
implemented but least effective is cutting social programs 
which rarely work because it is those social programs which 
are needed most that are most likely to be cut.

The second and more successful solution which is being 
pursued by "out-of-the-box" thinkers is to invent and 
implement a new approach to fund these much-needed social 
programs without incurring additional debt.

JCT: I wrote a post called "The Third Way" a decade or so 
ago and it may be findable on the net. First way, tax; 
second way, cut services, third way, create credits.  

TK: Bernard cited Japan as a world leader in seeking new 
approaches by promoting complementary community currencies 
to solve the economic strife that has been constantly 
plaguing Japan since the early 1990's. Bernard explained 
that since money is simply an agreement, within a community, 
to use something as a medium of exchange many local 
communities in Japan have taken the lead to make new 
agreements about money.

JCT: He said that Economics books never define what money 
is, only what it does. He said it's an agreement: eg: 
wedding, partnership. I always liked Dr. Popp's definition 
"a document." 

TK: According to Bernard, the Japanese recognize that "fiat" 
money is created out of nothing by the chartered banks 
and/or the central bank and then manipulated to be in scarce 
supply under the guise of the risk of inflation. 

JCT: I think Bernard, like most economists, thinks that money 
exerts its effects on inflation, etc, when it is created 
while I think it's when it's issued. Just creating new 
tokens by fiat or fiat lux has no effect as long as they're 
issued in exchange for worth, just like gold. I like fiat 
lux too. Like casino chips and LETS credits and debits, 
they're created out of nothing. I do that with my casino 
chips any time I want. But it's when I issue them that they 
get backed up with the worth that makes money acceptable. It 
doesn't matter what they're created out of since it's what 
they promise that makes them a worth upon issuance. I love 
fiat money. He mentioned "Fiat Lux": Let light be. Create by 
command. 

What I call "charging interest rates to generate inflation" 
he calls "manipulating to be in scarce supply." Not very 
engineeringly accurate, is it? "Under the guise of 
inflation, fiat money is manipulated to be in scarce 
supply" means what? The rationale for interest rates is to 
"fight inflation." My point is that it generates the 
inflation that is used as the basis for needing interest!

Bernard is unaware that foreclosures due to money scarcity 
cause the inflation Shift B risk. So the crowd's being 
misled by someone ignorant in banking systems engineering 
once again. "Bank debt money needs scarcity to keep the debt 
slaves under their yoke of oppression.

BL: Too generous in creation makes it less valuable.

JCT: Supposing that more generous creation also makes it 
less valuable. This is the orthodox banking premise of Shift 
A inflation, too much money creation chasing the goods when 
we know that we're suffering Shift B inflation where "too 
little" in creation doesn't make it more valuable, as his 
previous statement would lead one to believe, "too little" 
in creation causes more foreclosure Shift B inflation making 
it "less valuable" too. So too little creation makes it less 
valuable and too much makes it less valuable. 

The point is that more generous creation would reduce 
foreclosure Shift B inflation before too generous creation 
happened. By denouncing "too generous creation," it also 
pre-supposes the denouncement of "more generous creation" 
too. So Bernard never read Turmel's Advanced Engineering 
Analysis of the Banking System Engineering and it shows. And 
he's being hailed as tops in the banking systems engineering 
professorships. And he doesn't even know there are two 
possible inflation shifts. 

BL: Third World pays out $13 for every $1 they get in aid. 
- Alternative money is not realistic. It's only 
complementary. 

JCT: I felt like shouting "It took over in Argentina when 
the official system failed" but who needs to come on as 
aggressive just because they're being misled as to its 
potential from a failure in the course? 

BL: Complementary currencies can address problems that the 
federal currency cannot. 

JCT: Only while the federal currency remains flawed. Fix it 
to run linearly without usury like LETS and it will suit my 
demands for the whole nation. 

BL: It's good for mobilizing unused resources but he doesn't 
believe we can get rid of national currencies. 

JCT: Again, I felt like shouting: They didn't get rid of the 
national currency in Argentina, it died by itself and the 
community currencies took over. 

And Bernard's the hero of the local currency movement! Just 
like Alan Young's the hero of the Canadian Medpot movement. 
Betraying our model while taking bows for supporting it. 

I'm going to challenge Bernard to an audio debate on the 
ijccr yahoogroups. Someone has to have this out. 

BL: Mutual credit is created by its members. No inflation.

JCT: Well at least he got that right. But why he can't grasp 
that if interest-free suffers no inflation, how interest-
bearing fights inflation. Remember, he's a believer in 
Inflation Shift A "too much money" fought by restraining 
monetary growth with interest rates. 

TK: Since being motivated to action in the early 1990's, 
these innovative Japanese communities have launched projects 
whereby individuals are encouraged to create and spend their 
own complementary community currency to operate in parallel 
with their national currency. Bernard Lietaer shared a most 
significant quote by Alan Greenspan: "I foresee new private 
currency markets in the 21st Century' and a timely quote by 
the Japanese Minister of the Economy 2002: "The use of 
complementary currency can bring an end to the long lasting 
deflation of the Japanese economy by supplying additional 
monies of various types at the local level."

JCT: So even politicians are starting to finally see the 
advantages of interest-free financing at the local level. 
How hard will it be to get them to see the same advantages 
at the international trading level?

TK: Bernard Lietaer's favourite form of complementary 
community currency is a "mutual credit currency," which is 
commonly created by the participants themselves to 
facilitate a transaction. The "mutual credit currency" is 
referred to as a simultaneous debit (for the buyer) and a 
credit (for the seller). The LETS (Local Employment Trading 
System) software and the Time-Dollar software are two of the 
most popular models of mutual credit currencies. 

JCT: I always have a lot of fun when they say 90% of 
community currencies are in two categories: LETS and 
Timedollars. I say that a $10US Greendollar note that gets 
me an Hour of value is the same as a 1 Hour Timedollar note 
that gets me the same Hour of value. It's like saying the 
blue and red Fords comprise two categories to the financiers 
but certainly not to the Ford mechanical engineers. 

I have two great props to make my point. The Silence 
Magazine did a whole edition on France's SEL movement and 
antecedents but it's cover featured a whole grid of 
caricatures doing trades. The mother knits the sweater for 
the boy, the boy mows the lawn for the neighbor, the 
neighbor does gardening, etc, etc, etc, the friend gives the 
mother a ride to the doctor. Then I show them the UK 
Timedollar Fairshares Magazine which also has comic 
characters doing trades. Then I add: The experts say these 
two systems aren't the same. I point out they operate the 
very same. So 90% of all systems are LETS Timecurrency 
systems.  

TK: Bernard Lietaer pointed out that mutual credit systems 
never have a shortage of currency and neither do they cause 
inflation - two weaknesses of our orthodox, usury-based 
money system.
 
In his presentation, Bernard suggested that we-the-people at 
the fringe of the pyramids of power ought not expect 
creative solutions to come from our respective federal 
governments as politicians and bureaucrats are least likely 
to entertain thoughts and suggestions from out-of-the-box 
thinkers. In his summary comments about government Bernard 
said: We are entering a new world of economics, where money 
need not be scarce. Then he added: Who better to resolve 
local issues than the local people.
 
According to Bernard Lietaer, Japan is exploring more than 
40 different types of complementary community currencies in 
a series of projects defined as Eco Money Projects. 

JCT: Toshiharo Cato is the hero of the debt liberation 
movement getting his due for initiating 40 eco-money 
projects. 

TK: These Eco Money Projects are experimenting with a 
variety of (a) technologies - from high-tech smart cards to 
low-tech paper notes (b) scales from mountain villages of 
800 people to prefectures of 10 million and (c) complexity 
of function from single function to 27 different functions 
on a single smart card, elderly and/or child care, local 
unemployment, small business loyalty schemes, disaster-
preparedness training etc. In summary, Japan continues to 
test models to determine which will work best and for what 
purposes so that eventually they can initiate large scale 
projects with the optimal strategy.
 
Bernard explained the concept of "Fureai Kippu" whereby the 
Japanese create "Caring Relationship Tickets" for exchange 
in 372 operational systems that permit hundreds of thousands 
of senior citizens to live longer in their family homes. 
Seems like North Americans might be encouraged to copy this 
model to better care for our elderly.

JCT: Tsutomo Hotta (METI) did the "Fureai Kippu" for elderly 
care. Known as "Mr. Moral Authority," he's another 
Abolitionist hero using the only anti-poverty, anti-slavery 
tool there is, their own money system. 

TK: Bernard explained how the city of Yamato creates a 
municipal currency known as "Love" (Local Value Exchange) 
and encourages the use of smart cards to facilitate 
transactions. The quality of life is improving in Yamato 
because of the implementation of projects involving 
complementary community currencies.

JCT: Neat. Most people can't get confused because most don't 
understand emoney and don't have the pre-conditioned 
responses against interest-free emoney that they would have 
against interest-free ordinary money such as "lenders won't 
lend without interest." 

BL: The next step up is the integrated regional system. 

JCT: And after they step up to an integrated national 
system, then they'll find out that the integrated 
international UNILETS blueprint has been on the UN agenda 
since the 2000 Millennium Declaration. 

BL: They have two clearinghouses for their credits. 

JCT: I wonder why not one? Finally, Bernard said Bali has 
been time-trading since 941AD! They have a dual currency! 
Sounds like heaven to me. He mentioned that the town of 
Curitiba is 40% better off than the rest of Brazil because 
of their Community Currency for the past 25 years. A 
question was: Is there a critical mass? Bernard hit that 
nail on the head: "Two towns in Japan accept local in taxes 
so everyone does too." Bang on. My point for years is that 
the utility is often dependent on the biggest trader. Once 
it's accepted for payment of taxes, for power, for 
telephone, at Canadian Tire stores, it becomes acceptable 
everywhere for instantaneous saturation of market. 

So that's what's funny. Later, Bernard seems to have 
forgotten how easy it is with just one large trader to his 
saturation: 

TK: At this time in his research, Bernard Lietaer does not 
entertain the possibility that complementary community 
currencies have the potential to replace national 
currencies. 

JCT: So every usury banker in the world is hoping. But the 
bad news is that the banking systems engineer says they'll 
get wiped out, just like in Argentina, when local 
governments, large corporate concerns and farmers keep in 
mind that their IOUs for goods buy them more than they can 
get by selling for national money. Why go back? So community 
currencies, yea, even personal currencies, personal time-
IOUs, will replace national currencies. 

BL: Japanese Health Dollars are being issued by governments.

JCT: What a great solution to the health care crisis. Much 
like Americans can pay for their hospitalization with 
Timedollars they've earned helping volunteer at the 
hospital. How unfair for someone who volunteered at a 
hospital all their life to find out at the end they can't 
afford its services! 

TK: Myself and other visionaries do see the power and 
potential of the optimal complementary community currency - 
a universal time currency - eventually replacing all 
national currencies to become the currency-of-choice that 
will best serve us locally, nationally and internationally. 
This is because the standard unit of one hour is measured in 
60 minutes in every country of the world thereby eliminating 
the need to pay banks an exchange rate on the sovereign 
national currencies of their respective countries.

In summarizing his Practical Findings Bernard Lietaer made 
these points:
  
1.  In the field of complementary community currencies our 
practice is far ahead of theory and it's time that the 
academics catch up with the practical experience of the 
doers in the complementary community currency movement.

JCT: Bernard said that practice is ahead of the theory. They 
do it because it works but they still need to find out why. 
Har har har har. Read my engineering analysis and you'll 
find out why it works. Imagine, one of the LETS engineers 
does an advanced engineering analysis on LETS explaining how 
it works and the banker expert admits it works but still 
hasn't figured out why. Sure helps that he kept his research 
to a blinkered minimum.  

TK: 2. Contrary to the key economic theoretical hypothesis 
assumed by Adam Smith, money is not value neutral.
3. The implementation of complementary community currencies 
solves social problems.
 
Bernard Lietaer: "It's time to leave Monetary Flatland" and 
he pointed out that in 2003 the complementary community 
currency movement is where the Wright Brothers - the leaders 
of the flight and airplane movement were in 1903. In 
closing, Bernard stated: "Orthodox economics will fight 
complementary community currencies just like conventional 
medicine fights the introduction of acupuncture and other 
alternative healing methods." More later

PS: After the International Seminar closes at noon on 
Saturday myself, Ghislaine Saint-Pierre Lanctot and John C. 
The Engineer Turmel will share our knowledge and experiences 
about the complementary community currency movement with our 
friends and associates in Montreal who were unable to attend 
the seminar.
I will explain how we are building our own loyal database 
called the Third Market Network so that we can consciously 
change the way we spend our money. Instead of continuing to 
support the giant retailers we can now seek to purchase 
products and/or services from our own loyal database. I will 
have application forms the Third Market Network which was 
officially launched on November 13th, 2003. More details at 
www.cyberclass.net/thirdmarket.htm
Ginette Campeau [EMAIL PROTECTED] is organizing the 
mini-conference and her email is posted below indicating the 
time and location of the mini-conference. Enjoy this day!

JCT: Then came the second panel on "LETS MONNAIES SOCIALES ET 
ALTERNATIVES" "Social and Alternative currencies" with 
Michael Linton, designer of monetary systems, Molly Scott, 
Wales Institute; Jerome Blanc, Auguste & Leon Walras Centre. 

>Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Interim Report II on The International Seminar
About Financial Responsibilities and UsuryFree Community 
Currencies at UQAM By Tommy-Usury: Free
 
TK: It's time! Yes it's time indeed for Interim Report II 
about my experiences at the International Seminar About 
Financial Responsibilities and UsuryFree Community 
Currencies at UQAM.
 
Some readers were still not sure of the whereabouts of UQAM 
which stands for University of Quebec at Montreal. UQAM is 
located just east of downtown Montreal at the corner of St. 
Catherine and St Denis.
 
My understanding is that UQAM is the first ( and only) 
university in Canada to host an International Seminar of the 
topic of UsuryFree Community Currencies. Bravo UQAM! 
Hopefully, other universities in Canada and elsewhere will 
now follow UQAM's lead and hold Full Conferences and/or 
Mini-Conferences of the topic of UsuryFree Community 
Currencies.
 
I will commence Interim Report II by continuing with Molly 
Scott's presentation on Thursday, November 20th, 2003. Molly 
Scott, Professor, University of Wales made a presentation 
which focused on the roles of money within capitalism and 
resolving the conflict between these roles. Molly identified 
four roles of money:
1. lubricate and facilitate economic exchanges
2. underwrite exchange of goods and/or services between 
nations
3. source of income via investment
4. speculative commodity
 
Molly reflected on the obvious conflicts between these 
roles. For example, Molly pointed out the conflict between 1 
and 3 (facilitation and income generation) by explaining how 
these roles are incompatible in poorer national or regional 
economies. Molly also focused on the conflict between 2 and 
4 (underwriting for trade and for speculation). She proposed 
that working to solve these conflicts will lead us to social 
justice.
 
Next Molly talked about her research project in the Rhondda-
Cynon-Jaff Valley in the coal mining area of Wales. Her 
findings reveal that poor liquidity and leakage (money 
flowing from the local economy) are key causes for 
floundering and/or disappearing regional economies.

JCT: She mentioned that the "Money leakage" problem was 
explained by the NEF (New Economics Foundation) 
 
TK: To overcome these shortfalls, Molly explained that the 
local communities were increasing local liquidity and 
plugging the leakage through the introduction of 
complementary community currencies thereby re-building their 
respective local communities in the coal mining area of 
Wales.
 
On reviewing her Case Studies, Molly determined that when 
local residents within their respective communities changed 
the agreements they had about conventional money, by 
creating and spending complementary community currencies 
locally instead of spending only diminishing amounts of 
federal currency with giant corporations, it commenced re-
birth in the local communities. Molly used the term local 
multiplier when she discussed how local liquidity increased 
proportionately to the amount of complementary community 
currency being circulated by those who were choosing to 
participate.
 
In response to the horrendous job losses in the formerly 
thriving pit villages - those villages where the colleries 
(coal mines) were closed down - a severe economic downturn 
followed. During the 1990s the Wales Institute of Community 
Currencies was established as a project to lead the re-
building of these local communities. The aim of the project 
was to test out various applications of complementary 
community currencies in 16 different communities.
 
JCT: The Wales Institute of Community Currencies funded by 
the European Regional Development Fund. 

TK: In these selected pit villages in Wales, they have 
experimented with: (a) learning time credits (b) health 
credits (c) environmental credits (d) special tourist 
credits and (d) the ultimate political objective - a unique 
currency for Wales.
 
Molly, who also works with the Welsh Institute for Co-
operatives talked about the Tower Colliery in South Wales as 
the shining example of a worker-owned colliery which was 
established in 1994. http://www.minersadvice.co.uk/tower.htm
 
During Molly's discourse in the afternoon workshop she 
clearly revealed that indeed she is an astute point one 
percenter by speaking eloquently about how the design flaw 
of usury creates the growth of debt and keeps the poor 
borrowers forever indebted to the wealthy lenders. It was 
clear to her that the function of usury on the money system 
is the direct and/or indirect cause of the economic malaises 
that have afflicted the pit villages in Wales as it has 
similarly afflicted small communities in other countries 
worldwide.
 
Molly suggested that the design flaw of usury in our 
orthodox money system must be addressed along with the 
"truth" about how banks create money (principal) out of 
nothing and to lend to borrowers, charging them usury - 
which is never created. Indeed, Molly Scott can join the 
point one percenters - those few free will, full liability 
men and/or women who know the truth about how usury is the 
killer machine that destroys local and regional economies as 
well as country economies such as what happened in Argentina 
in 2001.

JCT: And I found her most important points to be that they 
were were working on a currency for all Wales and "We need a 
new global trading currency. All have right to currency."

JEROME BLANC (Lyons U. France)

JCT: Jerome did a presentation on 4 types of money: LETS 
monnaies sociales; Ithaca Hours centrally issued; Worgl 
Government centrally-issued money; and Corporate money. 
Canadian Tire money is Canada's best example of corporate 
money. 

TK: Permit me to sidetrack to describe a couple of unique 
experiences while being in Montreal this week for the 
International Seminar at UQAM.
 
Episode I
 
The International Seminar at UQAM commenced on Wednesday, 
November 19th, 2003, Day 3 of the Montreal Transit strike. 
John C. The Engineer Turmel was a passenger in my automobile 
as we drove to Montreal in heavy rain in the late afternoon. 
I was not aware that there was a Transit strike but I did 
find the traffic heavier than usual as I entered downtown 
Montreal via Highway 20 and the Ville Marie Expressway.
 
With limited bus and Metro service we had no choice but to 
drive downtown each day of the seminar. Each morning we have 
left NDG (Sherbrooke near Decarie) early to maximize our 
chances of securing a parking spot in the grid-filled lots 
at the discounted price of $7.00 if parked before 8:00 AM.
 
Leaving the parking lot requires an abundance of patience as 
the attendants have to jockey the cars to unlock the parking 
grids. On Friday afternoon, I was set to depart the parking 
lot at 3:30 PM and my car was 5 rows over and 4 cars deep in 
a 9 x 5 grid-packed parking lot on St. Denis just south of 
St Catherine.
 
I humoured the frustrated car-juggler, a man named John (50+ 
years) as he hustled to jockey the cars from the lot to the 
street and back again in an effort to satisfy some hurried 
and rather impatient motorists. When he finally got to 
ungriding my car 40 minutes after I had paid the fee and 
received my keys he thanked me for my patience by saying: 
Thank you for your patience, you're not as raged as most 
people. I don't own this parking lot. I'm just doing my job 
the best that I can and so many people are so impatient 
because of the strike. Then he added: You know, I have a 
university degree from Concordia and here I am labouring and 
taking insults as a parking lot attendant just to survive in 
this crazy world.
 
I wondered which corporation had given John the golden 
handshake because of cutbacks due to a shortage of money. 
John looked like a respectable middle-class Canadian who had 
been totally loyal to his employer for many career years 
only to be let go because there was not enough business to 
keep him gainfully employed. Obviously, John still has his 
education, skills and talents but there is a scarcity of 
money and he is demoted to a minimum wage job in the service 
industry.
 
I asked John if he had access to a computer. He answered: 
Yes. Then I passed him my business card and invited him to 
read some information at my website www.cyberclass.net which 
would help him better understand why he was suffering 
through the experience of scarcity and lack. He assured me 
that he would. I also passed along the name and telephone 
number of a friend in Montreal with whom he could talk if he 
wanted to learn about some solutions that are offering hope 
to those who are seemingly trapped in the system that is 
failing them.
 
As I left the parking lot, I felt great empathy for John 
while thinking about what Bernard Lietaer had said about the 
usuryfree community currency movement of 2003 being where 
the flight and airplane movement had been in 1903. How many 
people are feeling trapped like John not knowing anything 
about how a usuryfree time currency could free them from 
their financial slavery?
 
Episode II
 
When we walked out of UQAM on Thursday afternoon at 
approximately 5:00 PM there were hundreds of protestors 
walking on la rue St. Denis near the corner of la rue St. 
Catherine. They were protesting to denounce the veil of 
secrecy under which they say the Free Trade Area of the 
Americas is currently being negotiated.
 
The Montreal Gazette reported that there were approximately 
1000 protestors, mainly students from colleges and 
universities in Montreal. Apparently, the trade ministers 
from 34 countries in the Americas were gathered in Miami, 
Florida to approve a watered down declaration which is
supposed to be ratified in January 2005.
 
It seemed like a peaceful demonstration and having gained 
experience at the FTAA in Quebec City in April 2001, John 
and I walked with them for a while. As I walked, I pondered 
how a usuryfree time currency for the whole world would 
quickly solve all of the legitimate complaints raised by the 
anti-globalization demonstrators everywhere. Too bad they 
can't be marching for the solution instead of demonstrating 
against the problem!

JCT: Finally, Wendy Lloyd-Smith is hosting a LETS info day 
for her Notre Dame de Grace LETS on ???? December ?? and she 
can be reached at 514-486-2860. 
--
Abolitionist Slave Leader John C."The Banking Systems Engineer" Turmel
for UNILETS interest-free time-based currency in U.N. resolution C6
to Governments in the http://www.un.org/millennium/declaration.htm 
http://www.cyberclass.net/turmel 519-756-1325 USENET: can.politics