TURMEL: #2 Montreal Seminar on Alternative Currencies

JCT: It's official. I'm on my way to Montreal for the 
Seminar on Alternative Currencies at the University of 
Quebec At Montreal, Judith Jasmine Pavilion, Marie-Guerim 
Lajoie Hall from Nov 19-22, 2003. 

I'll be going to promote my latest UNILETS Proteus Project 
coming up. 

I'm looking for anyone in the Montreal SEL or JEU systems 
who has a spare room and will accept 5 Hours worth of Turmel 
Greendollars. I'll have plenty of stories to tell from the 
seminar and I'll be bringing my accordion. 
 
I'll check my email regularly before I pop for a motel. 

Anyone wishing to attend, tickets are $175 though I hear 
students can get in for $75. Tickets can be reserved at 
514-987-3000#6972. More info at: http://www.ceh.uqam.ca

Tommy "No-Usury" Kennedy's going to be attending too with 
his first-hand experiences in Ottawa LETS and in running the 
first class-room LETS ever in the world. 

Looks like my confrontation with Bernard Lietaer is worrying 
some. 

>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:25:55 -0600
>From: Cal Schindel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: JCT to attend Quebec alternative currency conference
 
Here is a suggestion John, from Cal.
 
CS: Listen carefully to what Lietaer says and give yourself 
a chance to learn what he really says rather than what you 
believe. 

JCT: Har har har har. He wants the world's top banking 
systemes engineer to learn from an inferior economist-
trained banker. 

CS: This might be a good time to display some consideration 
for another person's ideas.

JCT: What other ideas does he have other than no support for 
UNILETS. When I challenged him in the past, he ran away. I'm 
sure he told everyone I was too whatever to bother with. Now 
he's coming where I can put the questions he couldn't answer 
answer the last time. 

>Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:22:08 -0600
>From: Fred Yankowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: JCT to attend Quebec alternative currency conf
 
>> Bernard Lietaer is a supposed expert who prefers using
>> government interest-bearing money over creating it
>> ourselves interest-free. I'll give him a hot time if I 
>> get the chance.
 
FY: What gives you that impression of Mr. Lietaer's 
preference?  

JCT: Gee, I guess you must have missed his post to ijccr and 
my response. 

FY: In his "Future of Money" book and on transaction.net he 
clearly supports various complementary currencies, including 
mutual credit currencies. Fred Yankowski

JCT: But he has never supported the optimal UNILETS world-
wide time-based currency already on the Millennium 
Declaration as Resolution C6 to governments. 

>Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:26:43 -0600
>From: Fred Yankowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: JCT to attend Quebec alternative currency 
 
Ah, sorry Cal -- I mistook JCT's statement to be yours. I 
skip Turmel's messages as soon as I recognize their source, 
but I got fooled when his words appeared in a message from 
you.  

JCT: Duh... I wonder how he missed it? Which explains why 
you don't know what everybody else is talking about though 
you are clear in your pleasure at staying ignorant. It also 
implies your failure to stay with the high-tech explanations 
of The Engineer. I just love morons like this with mouths 
big enough to fit their feet. 

My past post for anyone who has forgotten when Lietaer 
showed his true colors: 

>> 
Debate vs Bernard "The Banker" Lietaer in Germany July?

>From: bernard lietaer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:22:56 +0200
>Subject: [ijccr] Re: Are you on this list Bernard? - Fw: 
Community Currency backed by Energy

BL: Dear Helen and Alf, This is indeed an intriguing idea, 
but there are two limitations:

JCT: I've been talking about energy-backed currency for 25 
years, whether E=m*c^2 or E=Pt, and he's just now become 
intrigued. I guess he wasn't kidding when he told a 
correspondent that he had never looked at my advanced 
banking systems engineering analysis. Do former bankers find 
flow-charts too hard?

He's just learning about what we've been discussing all 
along. And he thinks there are limitations. 

Assuming that the United Nations version of UNILETS 
interest-free time-based (energy) currency from Resolution 
C6 to governments in the Millennium Declaration were 
instituted, let's delve into our timid banker's first foray 
into banking systems engineering. Then again, he's never 
supported the UNILETS in all these years and I must thank 
Helen and Alf for drawing him out of his hole so we learn 
where he stands. 

BL: 1. Buying a solar pannel will require dollars or Euros 
or some form of national currency. 

JCT: In Argentina, I'd bet a farmer's community currency IOU 
will buy those solar panels a lot faster than the national 
Argentinian currency since it's currency that buys tractors 
and cars from GM, Ford and Monsanto for everyone in the 
nation who possesses it too. Banker's Error #1: Stable 1/s 
currency proven superior to 1/(s-i) national model. Banker 
picked the loser model. 
 
BL: As far as I know, no community makes solar panels... 

JCT: Someone does somewhere. Hope the confusion of Banker's 
Error #2 has now been remedied. Solar panels are 
manufactured in some community somewhere. 

BL: So rather than a community project it would make more 
sense to do this in the conventional economy rather than in 
the complementary currency mechanism. 

JCT: The Argentinians have come to trust their crop currency 
economy over over the conventional money economy. Banker's 
Error #3. It would make more sense to to this in the 
complementary currency mechanism than the conventional 
economy. Banker #3 has it directly backward and picked the 
loser model again.  

As for the superiority of conventional currency over UNILETS 
energy notes, that's Banker's Error #4. Farmer's community 
credit notes are working in Argentina while the conventional 
economy sits broken. Banker picked the broken model again. 

As for preferring a conventional interest-bearing currency 
system over an interest-free community currency system, 
that's Banker's Error #5. Banker picked the unstable model, 
again. 

BL: By the way, in Germany for example, there are 
advantageous tax incentives created by the government so 
that people invest in windmills2. 

JCT: Interest-free financing is a highly superior form of 
funding than tax incentives which involve taking from the 
tax-payers. That's Banker's Error #6. Banker picked the less 
efficient model, again. 

And it means that he does not see the advantage of paying 
government expenses with interest-free currency up front and 
then taxing back at the end of the cycle versus the 
presently stupid system he endorses of taxing up front and 
budgeting out scarce funding. Banker's Error #7 Banker 
picked the backward model. Again. 

BL If someone is willing to lend someone national currency 
at no interest to buy a solar panel, wouldn't it make more 
sense that he or she puts that solar panel on their own 
house or land rather than on someone else's? 

JCT: So accepting an automated shortage of funds, who would 
lend someone national currency which is kept in short supply 
when they can keep it and profit for themselves? Always the 
money-lender's sop to their own misgivings. Trying to live 
within an artificial shortage of funds established by the 
orthodox banking system is Banker's Error #8. Banker picked 
the shylock model, again. 

BL: Best, Bernard

JCT: Your best is a dud Bernard. Your best is a flaming 
worst. Imagine, in only 13 lines, 8 challenges. Eight 
stupendous inanities from a supposed money system 
engineering specialist who is giving one of the talks at the 
big "Community Currency Conference" in Germany this July! 
Har har har har. I think I'll go too. 

Imagine, they call this guy a "community currency" reformer. 
Sounds like another Judas Goat to me. Sounds like Bernard is 
to the LETS banking systems engineering world what Alan 
Young is to the Cannabis Prohibition Abolition world. That's 
not good news. Then again it is. 

As the LETS consulting engineer, I delivered the UNILETS 
community currency presentation to the United Nations for 
good reason. Imagine had they invited Bernard! 

So I challenge you, Bernard Lietar, former central banker, 
to a debate on the above challenges to your misunderstanding 
of banking systems engineering at the German LETS conference 
this July. 

And I bet you 100 Euros that I win each point on an audience 
show of hands. 
Invictus
>>

JCT: Of course, he simply ducked the questions and his 
supporters on ijccr don't mind backing a chicken. Cal 
Schindel telling me to learn from the banker's mole. Sure. 

Cal, I'll send you $100US to $1 that you can't cite one flaw 
that anyone has ever found at any time in my UNILETS time-
based currency. You've never supported it and you've kept 
loading us with tripe from inferior money philosophers, not 
one who ever got his inflation shifts right. 

Sure, do a search for Linton and UNILETS and you'll hear 
Michael panning it but never putting his money were his 
mouth is either. Time for the fellow forgot his engineering 
to pay for his audacity in challenging a real engineerin in 
public. 

So Cal, you think I need help somewhere in my understand of 
the banking system engineering, do you? Put your no-money 
where your mouth is. A free shot because I know you haven't 
got a prayer of finding an error in my advanced engineering 
analysis of something as trivial, to me, as poker chips. It 
may be hard to you, Cal, but that just indicates how far 
below me you really are. But you insist on tailor-fitting 
your shoe to your mouth, so go ahead. 

Put up or shut up and bite your foot. 



--
Abolitionist Slave Leader John C."The Banking Systems Engineer" Turmel
for UNILETS interest-free time-based currency in U.N. resolution C6
to Governments in the http://www.un.org/millennium/declaration.htm 
http://www.cyberclass.net/turmel 519-756-1325 USENET: can.politics