Re: TURMEL: Money, Interest and Prosperity

Where do the looney toons get these ridiculous ideas?  
How do they dream them up?  Now Turmel et al. tell us 
there is something inherently "exponential" about 
"positive" feedback.  Since they claim that interest 
is "positive" feedback, that "proves" it results in 
growth in debt that is "exponential."  The method of 
the crank: start from concocted assumptions, "prove" 
anything you want, even the utterly absurd.

A resonating sound system is resonating at a constant 
frequency and volume.  That's what the very word 
resonance means.  There's nothing "exponential" about 
it.  Basic electronics 101.  

(I won't say that Parker is necessarily lying here 
because he doesn't claim to be an engineer.  He is 
merely a pitiful ignoramus.  But Turmel claims to 
have a diploma in electronics engineering.  He is 
lying or is an imposter; take your pick.  Otherwise, 
we will have to assume it is possible to get through 
that college's curriculum without learning anything of 
significance from the subject matter.  But it might 
be possible for a slick con man to do that and get 
away with it, I will grant, conning everyone along 
the way, including his instructors.  But I would bet 
he is simply lying.)

Nor is there anything wrong with positive feedback 
ipso facto.  It depends entirely on the intended 
purpose for the circuit whether you want it to be 
there or not.  The same thing for feedback that is 
negative.

In my last post I gave the example of the triode tube 
that revolutionized communications using positive 
feedback.  Supplementary material is appended below.

Another dramatic example from history was the 
invention of the clock escapement, which uses 
positive feedback between the balance wheel and 
escapement wheel.  Each tick of the clock feeds 
energy back into the pendulum from the weight, spring 
or battery, keeping it going.  The technology made it 
possible for clocks to be constructed that were 
accurate enough to be used for navigation across open 
oceans.  It became possible for the first time to 
calculate longitude.  Before, navigators had to keep 
within sight of shorelines.
--

"Edwin Howard Armstrong enrolled in electrical 
engineering at Columbia, and in 1913, while still an 
undergrad, made his first great discovery, 
regeneration...Armstrong discovered that the gain of 
a triode amplifier could be enormously increased by 
feeding some of the amplifier output back into the 
input, i.e. by using positive feedback. Given enough 
feedback, the amplifier became a stable and powerful 
oscillator, perfect for driving radio transmitters. 
Given a little less feedback, the amplifier became a 
more sensitive radio receiver than anything else at 
the time."

-- 





"Dan Parker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Bill Ryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> <**>Positive feedback introduces an exponential
>> growth. Like bringing a mike up to a speaker. It
>> blows.<**>
>>
>> No it doesn't if the speaker is sufficiently power
>> rated for the amplifier.  The system merely resonates
>> ("squeals") at a constant frequency and volume
>> determined by the parameters of the system, including
>> its volume setting.
>
>Utter BS as usual. Newer electronics will squelch the cascading
>resonance, but only through negative feedback. Just about
>everyone reading this will have experienced what is being
>described about the positive feedback between a mic and
>an amp.  You can see it in older movies even, where the mic
>has to move away from the amp.  Bankster Bill has a very
>glib line, but on examination, it turns out to be lies and more
>lies.
>
>Dan Parker
>
>
>It is indeed an example of
>> "positive" feedback from speaker to microphone.  Note
>> that when resonating the frequency and volume are
>> constant, so this does not demonstrate "exponential"
>> growth. 
>>
>> When it is not resonating, the amplifier merely
>> amplifies the input signal from the microphone to
>> whatever level you choose limited by the amplifier's
>> "gain" that you control through its "volume" knob, so
>> this too is not a demonstration of "exponential"
>> growth though it does represent positive feedback
>> within the amplifier. All that is demonstrated is the
>> linear relationship between the volume setting and
>> volume.
>>
>> So, in the manner of the stereotypic crank, he leaps
>> from false analogy to false conclusion.  But in this
>> case he describes something that doesn't exist.  He
>> thereby demonstrates that he is not only a crank but
>> an ignoramus.  Or perhaps a liar.
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> The most important invention in the history of
>> electronics was the triode vacuum tube at the
>> beginning of the twentieth century.  Its elements
>> were plate, grid and cathode that were designed to
>> apply the Edison effect.  The signal at the grid was
>> amplified at the plate and cathode.  Feeding back the
>> signal from the plate or cathode to the grid made
>> powerful oscillators possible.  So the reception of
>> faint radio signals became possible that could be
>> tuned to specific frequencies.  It meant that
>> powerful high frequency radio signals could be
>> blended with low frequency audio.  There were tubes
>> at both transmitters and receivers.  The technology
>> was entirely predicated on positive feedback at
>> both.  If it hadn't been for the productive
>> utilization of that phenomenon, we never would have
>> had the computers that we use to post these messages.
>> Nor read them.
>>
>> So fuck you, pinhead.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Turmel) wrote in message
>>  news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>> > >Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:32:52 -0500
>> > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Daniel Morin)
>> > >Subject: Money, Interest and Prosperity
>> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >
>> > Hi, I saw you on television
>>
>> What you saw was a fool with a big ego.