Re: TURMEL: Money, Interest and Prosperity

"Kingbarry2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "Dan Parker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > "Kingbarry2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > "Dan Parker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Von Mises advocates more slavery under a gold standard.
> > > > This is the other side of the tweedledee/tweedledum right/left
> > > > situation that we are presented with to create the illusion
> > > > of choice. In playing his part, von Mises rages against
> > > > socialism, while ignoring the historical facts about Trotsky
> > > > sailing out of New York with 20 million of Schiff's gold
> > > > backed money, or Lenin's gold train rolling into Russia
> > > > from Europe.
> > > >
> > > > Gold is a commodity easily cornered, and after that it
> > > > is 'he who had the gold, makes rules that make you
> > > > his slave'. There's no shortage of monetary reformists
> > > > galloping from the unpayable debt of compound interest
> > > > fiat money, to the supposedly 'sound' money of gold;
> > > > even though it can be proven that the gold standard
> > > > led to our slavery under the fractional reserve system.
> > > >
> > > > Truth is, you would starve to death on a desert isle
> > > > with all the gold in the world, which proves it has
> > > > no intrinsic value (beyond its communication, satellite
> > > > shielding etc properties).  That is: gold is also fiat
> > > > money, in that it only has value for exchanges because
> > > > people believe that it has.
> > > >
> > > > FOOLS' GOLD
> > > > by Robert Carroll
> > > >
> > > > By monopolizing this commodity the moneyed classes have got Nature
by
> > the
> > > > throat and the community under their heels... Compared with this
> > process,
> > > > usury is mere child's play. -Alexander Del Mar in The Science of
> Money.
> > > >
> > > > http://landru.i-link-2.net/monques/goldx2.html#FOOLS'
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > OK. Lets do a trade. You give up your share of the worlds gold and
I'll
> > > trade you a lollipop.
> > > GGGRRREEEATTT !
> >
> > The monetary fraud is not a laughing matter, as many die in poorer
> > countries from easily preventable diseases because money that
> > should go towards needed infrastructure is spent to make interest
> > payments on loans; and this money was created from thin air, and
> > often lent to despots.  Unicef estimates it is 500,000 , but that is
> > only children.  Or do you get glee from 500,000 children a year
> > dying from easily preventable causes? I am just kidding of course,
> > but I think we can agree that anyone who wishes mass murder
> > on innocent kids so should be brought to justice. What do you think?
> >
> > dp
> >
>
>
> Its hilarious. "money that should go towards needed infrastructure"
> is not wasted on interest payments - its bribes and corruption all the way
> down boyo.
> There are no interest payments made - never - they just get a new loan
> justified
> by saying they will pay the interest.
> Change yer focus, yer telescope is pointed the wrong way.
> Look to the "elite" and "gov't" in those countries.

You are either lying or incredibly stupid.  First you tell me I am
unaware of nature of many governments taking the loans, in
:answser to this:

> >and this money was created from thin air, and
> > often lent to despots

If you don't know what a despot is, look it up.

Please note also that it is often the same power structure
making the loan as is backing the despot.

Secondly, by your whitewashing of the corrupt, fraudulent
money system, one would assume that if a more honest
government managed to gain power, then there would be
no serious problems with loan repayments.  Can you name
a heavily indebted country that managed to get out of the
compound interest trap by itself?  So another case
of incredible ignorance or lying.

What is not surprising that a monetary system based on
crime would support other criminals. I google one country
with some appropriate key words, and here is from the
links on the first page of returns.

excerpt

Nigeria's debt has simply become unwieldy. At the G8 meeting, President
Obasanjo stated "All that we had borrowed up to 1985 or 1986 was around $5
billion and we have paid about $16 billion yet we are still being told that
we owe about $28 billion.if you ask me what is the worst thing in the world,
I will say it is compound interest."

http://www.lagosforum.com/comment.php?NR=250

excerpt
Pushed by Ms Pettifor on the question of corruption, General Obasanjo
acknowledged that at least half of Nigeria's debt "is dubious". "The people
who gave those loans knew that the money wasn't being spent wisely. Perhaps
they even took their own cut. Yet the ordinary people of Nigeria have to pay
back that loan. This is the injustice of it all. I want Jubilee 2000 to go
and preach it in Europe, America and Japan, that the burden of our debt is
immoral".

http://www.odiousdebts.org/odiousdebts/index.cfm?DSP=content&ContentID=280

In five years alone (1993-1998) General Abacha and some members of his
family are now confirmed to have salted away as much as $5 billion in Swiss,
German, UK and American banks, among several other countries. Abacha's son,
currently on trial in Nigeria for other suspected crimes, recently confessed
to moving $700 million in cash from his home in Abuja through several such
banks, all on behalf of his father, no questions asked.

It is mind-boggling. One wonders how these large sums of monies from
developing countries are moved between banks in Western countries without
eyebrows being raised, when within the US, for example, a bank has to report
to the US Reserve Bank if more than $9,999 is transferred from a single
account!

http://www.africaaction.org/docs00/nig0006.htm

Anyways, thanks for helping me make the case, and goodbye.

dp




>
> -- 
> Macdonaldus Senex fundum habuit. E-I-E-I-O. Et in hot fundo nonnullas
boves
> domesticas habuitt. E-I-E-O. Cum moo moo hic, et cum moo moo ibi. Hic una
> moo, ibi una moo, ubique una moo moo. Macdonaldus Senex fundum habuit.
> E-I-E-I-O
>
>