Re: The Anazari experience:

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:31:40 GMT the ET form known as Say not the 
Struggle nought Availeth<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent a radio signal across 
the vast expanse of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.

> it's the anazazi.

Also Anasazi and with a capital A being a proper noun. But yes my 
original spelling was wrong.
 
> And the most likely reason for the collapse is the climate change 
> starting at the end of the 1st millenium.

http://www.google.com.au/groups?q=collapse++civilisation+OR+civilization+%22new+mexico%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=r&selm=Kiwda.15198%24S%253.803485%40bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net&rnum=6

Linda Cordell, a professor of anthropology at the University of 
Colorado say "Groundbreaking climatological studies have convinced 
many archeologists that the "so-called Great Drought," as detractors 
now call it, simply was not bad enough to be the deciding factor in 
the sudden evacuation". She thinks social facotrs, including conflict 
was a cause.

http://www.edge.org/documents/archive/edge114.html
WHY DO SOME SOCIETIES MAKE DISASTROUS DECISIONS?: JARED DIAMOND

"Anasazi in the U.S. Southwest, Classic Maya civilization in the 
Yucatan, Easter Island society in the Pacific, Angkor Wat in southeast 
Asia, Great Zimbabwe in Africa, Fertile Crescent societies, and 
Harappan Indus Valley societies. These are all societies that we've 
realized, from archaeological discoveries in the last 20 years, 
hammered away at their own environments and destroyed themselves in 
part by undermining the environmental resources on which they 
depended."
 
> The trees from 50-70 miles away were used to build the houses, not 
> energy.  That's how we know where they came from.

With what did they cook. In any case in my post I stated that the wood 
was also used for building. But even so the question of stressing a 
resource base is relevant.
 
> Obviously if the trees had been burned, would have been no evidence.

We know from the mittens (soft rocks formed out of rodent waste) 
containing seeds. 

> Rest is posters imagination.

Some yes, but in drawing parallels with today's use of energy and 
resources. Obviously the Anazazi did not have economic rationalists. 
That is a modern religion. The blame game may have been played against 
gods or a failure to honour the gods. 

I am currently waiting for the delivery of the Joseph Tainter book 
"The Collapse of Complex Societies" from Amazon, the premise of 
which is that increasing complexity of societies in order to solve 
problems leads to diminishing returns. In energy sources, increasingly 
complex ways to recover energy leads to lower EROEI and therefore 
increasing societal and economic stresses unless fundamental new novel 
sources of energy are found instead.

The picture I was painting is a peak in world oil discovery in 1962, 
followed by a peak in world oil production in 2005-10 leading a 2-3% 
decrease annually in oil production and followed 40-50 years latter by 
a population crash because agriculture is fossil fuel dependent. 2 
billion by 2100 whether we like it or not. Yes I am an oil Cassandra.
 

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