Re: GMO in Developing Nations

Bruce Sinclair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Oz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>wrote:
>>Bruce Sinclair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>>
>>>I haven't seen this benefit anywhere. Is it real ? Has the price for food 
>>>(incidentally NOT very high anyway :) ) really come down ?
>>
>>Take a look at farmgate prices in the EU and US.
>>The statistics should be easily found via google.
>
>I'd suggest farmgate price would be exactly the wrong data to look at. We have 
>already agreed that commodity prices are falling. My question is ... have the 
>food prices to the consumer fallen ? .. is this directly related to GE ?

Food prices to the consumer have indeed fallen in real terms.
The fact that the supermarkets tend to take most of the saving doesn't
mean that shelf prices wouldn't be even higher without the farmgate
fall.

Please note that direct GE imports to the EU are muted.

>>>>Over the last few generations the price of basic food commodities has fallen
>>>>steadily. 
>>>This is irrelevant as to GE or not. The price of all comodities has fallen 
>>>in real terms. It was doing so before GE ... it will continue to do so in all 
>>>likelihood.
>>No with farmers worldwide all losing money (which they are) it won't.
>>At the end of the day it can only be cheaper if its produced cheaper.
>
>.. and if the increasing number of middlemen don't boost their take ... which 
>has often been the case.

Indeed, but they would have increased their take to the max anyway.
Just look at milk pricing for that.

>>>>This is obvious when you see the amount of land and output that it
>>>>now takes for a farmer to make a living, this has been growing steadily. My
>>>>Grandfather could make a good living on 34 cows and 60 sheep, employ three
>>>>men and even in the 1950s take foreign holidays and also have a weeks
>>>>holiday in London prior to Christmas.
>>>>Now the number cows necessary to support one family in the UK is reckoned to
>>>>be about 150, and to employ three staff you are probably looking at about
>>>>300.
>>>Because we have machines to do much of the work ... 
>>Yup, a combine harvester at 350k UKP.
>>This has to be paid for, you know.
>
>Indeed ... but it costs less than people.

Not quite sure about that, what is so is that in the UK farm
mechanisation has more been powered by shortage of people willing to do
the job at any money. That was certainly the case with herbicide use in
veg (and sugarbeet) in the UK. Farmers turned to herbicides because
hoegangs simply were not obtainable at any price. Come to that, that
also powered the move to mechanical milking.

>>>and becuase commodity 
>>>prices have fallen.
>>Because they can be produced more cheaply.
>
>Nope ... because more and more the buying is in the hands of a very few. IIRC 
>we have 2 major supermarket chains in NZ.
>I'm not sure how much of NZ's food they handle .. but I'd be prepared to guess 
>it's be 80 % ? They buy cheap because they can ... and they are the only (ish) 
>game in town. Again .. this is not related to GE.

It's more related to world prices, which is.

>>>>Each advance, such as the introduction of tractors, the introduction of
>>>>herbicides and pesticides, as merely lead to the increase in production of
>>>>food per man, and the fall in price. GM is merely the next step on that
>>>>road.
>>>Possibly. I am yet to be convinced.
>>The look the stats up for yourself.
>
>I have ... as I say ... I am yet to be convinced :)
>Remember this is stats :)

Look them up for yourself, it doesn't take long on google, since you
clearly prefer to disbelieve things that contradict your religion.

>>>>As for the benefit to the consumer, the proportion of the income of the
>>>>urban population is lower, allowing them more money to spend on other
>>>>things. 
>>>Proportion used on food ? I'd agree (as minor as I believe that amount is) ...
>>>except I've seen nothing to suggest that the food price is in any way related 
>>>to GE.
>>
>>Take a look at world grains/soya prices.
>
>In NZ (at least) soy price is mostly irrelevant to food. We don't eat much 

<sigh> That controls world meat prices.

>I'm informed that most grain goes for animal feed (particularly in the US).

yes, but that controls milling wheat premiums.

>Any concrete ge link to price ... or indeed to any benefit ?

I'm not sure if you are simply ignorant of basic food economics, or just
have your ears closed.

-- 
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
DEMON address no longer in use.