Re: The Vinland Map Find Or Fraud?

"Vaughan Sanders" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> skrev i en
meddelelse news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "Soren Larsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > "Paul J Gans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> skrev i en meddelelse
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > In soc.history.medieval Vaughan Sanders
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > >"Eric Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >> On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:41:30 -0000, "Vaughan Sanders"
> > > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > >snip
> > >
> > > >>
> > > >> Being propelled under sail, they really had little alternative
in
> > the
> > > >> route they could follow. They didn't have to land at these
places
> > but
> > > >> they did have to sail in their general direction. The return
> > journey
> > > >> would be made by a more southerly route.
> > > >> >
> > >
> > > >Where on earth did you get that idea from?, a Viking Longship or
> > Knarr
> > > >could out point any square rigger of Nelson's navy.
> > >
> > > I'd like to see some proof of that.
> > >
> >
> > It is a bit overstated.
> >
> > The replica longships dont do as well as "modern" square riggers for
> > probably two reasons: 1) There has been very little material
available
> > to reconstruct the sail setup of warships. 2) The hull is designed
> > as a compromise allowing for both sailing and rowing as effective as
> > possible. The longship replicas usually sails at 75 degrees when
> heading
> > into the wind.
> >
> > The norse pure sailing ships otoh usually sails at 60 degrees when
> > heading into the wind which is very respectable compared with
> > "modern" fullrigged ships from around 1900 which usually sailed at
> 60-70
> > degrees. The "knarr" replicas has a hullshape optimized for sailing
> > and their rig has been reconstructed with a large degree of
certainty
> > since the hulltype only slightly altered was in use into the 20th c.
> > This has alloved for comparisons of the modern rigs with the rig
> traces
> > on the viking age wrecks.
> >
> > It is also worthwhile to ponder that Viking - the first viking ship
> > replica
> > managed to cross the Atlantic in 27 days in her journey for the
world
> > fair
> > in 1893. Viking was a Gokstad replica and as such probably never
> > intended
> > as a seagoing ship by the Norse.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Soren Larsen
> >
> >
> >
>
> 7 weeks for Sir Humphrey in 1583.
>
> Only in a real blow can the Knarr get away from a Longship to
windward,
> although the Knarr can tack faster and point higher the oars of the
> Longship make the difference.

Sure that is the purpose of oars in a warship beside better
maneuverability.

Other secondary benefits are, teambuilding, physical exercise, and
getting
the warriors used to take orders as a unit.

But the claim was about the sailing qualities of longships if it was to
make
any sense. Everybody knows that a rowed ship can go directly against
normal wind - for a period.

>
> "The sagas include an account of this capability: A Viking named Gauti
> Tófason overtook four Danish knarrs in his longship. He was on the
verge
> of capturing a fifth when a storm blew up, allowing his prey to
escape."
>

It would also depend of the size of the ships. In the beginning of the
seperation of war and cargo ship the 'knarrs' would be relatively small
and easy for a warship to overtake. In the 11 - 13th century the large
knarrs would be a match for anything but a large royal/magnate dragon.

Speaking of which. There is now less than a year to the Skuldelev 2
replica - the large warship is finished. This is the ship build in
around 1040 and it would be on a ship like her that Gytha
Haroldsdaughter
and others of  the Godwinsson clan left Dublin for Denmark .....

It could indeed be the very same ship, Skuldelev 2 was build around
Dublin and was found near the Royal Danish residence Roskilde.

Anyway there is nice reconstruction drawing of her at:
http://tinyurl.com/x9e1

Soren Larsen