Re: The Vinland Map Find Or Fraud?

In alt.history.british hippo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>"Paul J Gans" wrote in message

>> In soc.history.medieval hippo wrote:
>>
>> >"William Black" wrote in message
>>
>> >> "hippo" wrote in message
>>
>> >> > It is both. I have always wondered why someone willing to go to the
>> >effort
>> >> > of obtaining parchment of the period, learning period script and
>> >phrases,
>> >> > would not also be willing to run up a batch of period ink.
>> >>
>> >> Because you can make loads of cash selling stuff like this to rich
>stupid
>> >> people (or just plain stupid people who work for rich institutions).
>> >>
>> >> However they may have doubts,  seeing as you last sale was the Brooklyn
>> >> Bridge to a Japanese tourist.
>> >>
>> >> So you need to do something that will fool the 'rent an expert' down at
>> >> Sotheby's,  real academic institutions won't play these days.
>> >>
>> >> The alternative to a good forgery is to find out which expert is going
>to
>> >be
>> >> consulted and buy them first.
>> >>
>> >> However 'real' art experts tend to decry scientists as 'mere
>technicians
>> >> with no appreciation of art' and so don't consult them,  which is why
>mild
>> >> steel medieval swords,  chemically polished armour and old master's
>> >painted
>> >> in acrylic turn up in sales now and again...
>> >>
>> >> The Vinland map doesn't actually matter,  because nobody who matters
>was
>> >> looking at it.
>>
>> >That can't be the case now that the age of the parchment has been
>> >established. I saw the huge fake Etruscan statues in the Metropolitan
>Museum
>> >as a lad too but at some point the 'experts' are going to have to decide
>if
>> >the map is a forgery or not even if the issue is no longer as important
>> >since the excavations in Newfoundland. -the Troll
>>
>> The age of the parchment has been known for some time.
>> It was, IIRC, dated from the age of the book from which
>> the parchment was taken.  As the wormholes in the book
>> and the parchment line up rather nicely, its origin seems
>> established.
>>
>> The age of the parchment was recently (by Olin, I believe)
>> determined directly.  But there was never any real debate
>> about the age.
>>
>> It is common for forgers of old documents to use paper
>> vellum or parchment from the period they want folks to
>> think the document is from.  It is the easiest thing to
>> date.

>It would be now but the map has been around since the '50s at least when our
>modern methods of dating were unknown. -the Troll

The forging of medieval documents began early in the Middle
Ages.  It has a long and honorable history.  What makes 
many fail are little problems such as the use of a hand
that was not known at the time or the use of words that
were not used or not used with the forger's meaning at
the time. 

Modern techniques are useful, but sometimes not as useful
as might be thought.  Owners of medieval manuscripts do not
want destructive methods of analysis used.  That's fairly
limiting though there are many non-destructive methods around
also.  However dating by non-destructive analytical methods 
is very very difficult.

The modern forging of medieval documents also has a long
history.  It is very difficult to do as the materials used 
by the medievals are often not available to us or their
proper preparation is not known to us.

The map in question seems to have been forged a while ago,
fifty years IIRC.

But it is amazing what the experts can come up with. 

    ---- Paul J. Gans