Re: Grammar

Alberto Moreira wrote:
> 
> Said  "Bill Bonde ( the oblique allusion in lieu of the frontal attack
> )"  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> :
> 
> >Who is letting the student get away with speaking dialect? All I said
> >was that the teacher should understand where the student is coming from
> >so that the teacher can make the best progress possible.
> 
> And I'm saying that it's irrelevant to the teacher where the student
> is coming from.
>
And I'm saying you are wrong, so we can just disagree about that one.


> I'm also saying that it should not be a teacher's
> burden to handle the student's dialect - I'm saying that the problem
> sits square on the student's shoulders, and that the student should
> handle it on his or her own. The student, in fact, owes that to the
> teacher and to the rest of the class: proactive participation and
> communication.
> 
Note that we are talking about a class where the instruction is supposed
to be on how to improve the student's English language skills. You
wouldn't think it was important if the students were Japanese to work on
skills in differentiating the R and L sounds? You'd just blame these
issues on the students and move on to whatever students from I don't
know where had trouble with?




> And I also say that the burden of making the best progress possible
> should be square on the shoulders of the student - no teacher can
> assume that load, and if anyone says he or she does, I say, nonsense.
> And the more we pretend we do take on ourselves responsibilities that
> should be handled by our students, the greater a disservice we're
> doing to their education.
> 
> Like I said before, want to be understood ? BE UNDERSTOOD. The student
> owes it to his or her classmates, to the teacher, to the
> administration. Don't throw that kind of issue on the teacher's back,
> that's not a teacher's problem. Is that thick dialect getting in the
> way of learning ? GET RID OF IT, at least inside that classroom.
> That's a student's problem, not a teacher's.
> 
> >So if the student doesn't understand something, that's not the teacher's
> >problem?!
> 
> If the student doesn't understand something, IT IS THAT STUDENT'S
> PROBLEM TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO COMMUNICATE IT. It's about time we place
> responsibility of education where it belongs: square on the students'
> shoulders. It shouldn't be a teacher's call to extract things from a
> student with a forceps on an ongoing basis.
> 
> >I hope you aren't an ESL teacher.
> 
> I am a grad school teacher. And if someone can't communicate in a
> classroom, maybe he or she doesn't belong in that classroom, but
> rather in the ESL class.
> 
I've got no problem with putting students in the classes that they need
to be in to move effectively learn. I don't support any of this nonsense
about putting in special ed kids in regular classes if they are going to
just disrupt or make learning harder for the rest of the students.



> >Fine, but that doesn't address my original point at all.
> 
> Your original point implies that it's a teacher problem to handle a
> student's inability to communicate. I say it's the student's problem.
> 
In the grade school, the teacher is the teacher of the various subjects
that the student is learning, including English. Granted sometimes
reading or whatever can be built into a special class. I don't see how
seeing a student with a problem means that the teacher shouldn't provide
assistance. That is weird to me.


-- 
"Throw me that lipstick, darling, I wanna redo my stigmata."
+-Jennifer Saunders, "Absolutely Fabulous"