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On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:28:35 -0500, "firstjois" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> did some sarious thank'n and scribbled:
Not sure this is sooo off topic. It deals with exercise and diet. I think we were born to walk and any process that reduces our time walking would increase our weight. The abstract didn't mention the ages of the women in question and I wonder how the study would have looked if they compared same age females and looked at the years in the US Vs years working in data processing or as a secretary.
Yes, I was milling over this same issue at lunch, obviously a woman who is older will have better english proficiency than a younger woman. The other issue being years in the U.S. and older woman is more likely to have more years in the U.S. versus a younger woman. However there is a 2 pt BMI difference
Too many sweets and too many starches. Isn't every other person you know now on the Atkins or South Beach Diet?
Mexican diet is very high in starch, corn beans and rice if
you are poor, suppliment cactus and salsa. How come they
weigh 50 lbs less than their counterparts on the other side
of the border who eat alot more beef, chicken, and protein
rich foods. In mexico, as you move up in income you have
protein from cabrito, chicken and pork. I have serious
qualms about the Atkins diet, right now because of the food
allergies the protien rich foods are highly restricted, I
have a high starch diet very little protein and fish oil as
the major source of lipid. I am holding at about 176 down
from a peak of about 189 when I was eating just small
amounts of beef, chicken, etc. With a constantly low
protein diet, no matter where or how I get my carbohydrates
I maintain a weight within 2 lbs of this weight.
I have a problem with the Atkins diet. I think those folks
who cannot loose weight are in a bad situation because they
go on a protein poor diet, but the essential fatty acids
mostly come from protein rich foods, and thus the
proteinaceous foods they are eating junky with regard to
these EFAs and thus they crave more of them. If they focused
on protein sources rich in the EFAs they could probably eat less and feel satisfied. Its no surprise to me that Atkins
died prematurely, his injuries probably were compounded when
his liver and kidneys exploded[joke for all those lawyers
out there that do not know me well].
The basic problem with americans, they are trying to
justify their extremely poor eating habits. We can look at
the following as exemplary.
Conclusion. Many of the worlds societies have been raised
in cultures where most foods were carbohydrate rich and this
was aproblematic because the carbohydrates fed neccesary
energy output to survive, while protein rich sources
definitely benifited humans such as during childgrowth or
pregnancy the staple of survival was the
carbohydrate/vegetable rich diet. Obesity in these primative
and early agrarian societies was restricted to individuals
of advanced age who maintained dental health and had a
social base that provided them with calories after they
slowed down in activity, this pattern is still seen in the
third world. because people live longer now-a-days they must
maintain better diet in their older years than the
prehistoric counterparts would have; however americans have
poor dietary habits from a young age and find it difficult
to adjust to requirements of older age. While it may be true that glucose generated from starch is
the primary observed anomoly in diabetes, in most
individuals the cause indirectly is not carbohydrate
overconsumption but 'fattening' as a result of the total
base of calories consumed and in the worst case scenarios
the primary source of fattening calories is protein/fat
which carry 4 to 10 times the amount of calories per gram
consumed relative to differential hydrated levels of starch.
Because of the benefit to availability levels in the
primative societies modern humans crave these items when
available even beyond healthy levels of consumption.
Secondarily if they were working during the carbohydrate
spike within the digestive track the glucose would be used
as rapidly as it appears taking stress of the catabolic
systems within the liver and other parts of the body. However, the appearance of digestive problems individuals
as they transition from traditional to commerciallized diets
reveals that traditional carbohydrate diets are not the
cause of all health problems, and the high protein diet as
proposed by Atkin may be very dangerous to individuals whose
genetic background is from societies with low-protein or low
red-tough-meat diets. Diets that may be difficult for many
peoples to digest as a staple food in the diet. The level of exercise that one engages is also part of the
problem, I would like to think that for every calory
consumed the body is more likely to find a healthy use of
that calorie if it is being converted to energy quickly than
if the body has to convert it to a third party storage
material which then has to be converted back for energy. As
one observes the dietary patterns of traditional societies
the calories are often consumed at levels and times as best
to feed them into the daily work activities; whereas in
american people tend to eat meals or snacks at times
irregarless of when the most strenous activities are. An
excellent example are the holidays when people pack on the
calories with no effort to exercise, and then weeks later
try to take off the sugar, proteins and fat converted to
triacyclglycerides and packed to their stomachs, buttocks
and thighs. This packing on of food stuffs is a major
contributing factor to diabetes in suceptible peoples. In
addition it often does considerable damage to the GI tract
that can then lay the foundations for diseases of a great
number of types. The ability to sense when on is full and to take
precautions to avoid side effects of overfilling. This issue
is what I think predisposes the carbohydrate overload driven
form of diabetes and is easily prevented.
As a result I can make the statement that obesity and
related diseases are more likely caused by the bodies
tolerance to higher energy substances in which the overall
result of the permissive overconsumption process is the
accumulation of fat. In many but not all individuals this
will result in the structural and physical debilitating
affects (skeletomuscular, hernias, etc) and this will tend
to occur in individuals who have a genetic background in
which obesity in the past would be possible and would
have some selective advantage, except into old age. The lapse into obesity by individuals with different
genetics that are less than amicable to excess calories can
take several symptomatic directions, in some individuals you
will see diabetes, in others digestive disorders, and still
others premature cardiovascular diseases. The weight that
triggers the clinical observations of abnormality, what I
would call the individual 'obese' weight is going to be a
factor of dietary sources of calories, factor of age, and a
factor of daily activities and excercise. The protein
tolerace of individuals of different genetic backgrounds of
course can vary, and dietary shifts to a moderate protein,
low carbohydrate diet, low fat diet may be beneficial given
their background; however given the rise in type II diabetes
and the peoples in which this raise is seen, I would argue
that promoting the atkins diet to these people is not
a wise thing to do.
All in all the high protein diet pathway is a dangerous
pathway suitable for a minority of individuals whose
evolution is tied to pastoral or longer associations with
modern societies where red meat has traditionally been
abundant. Even in these instances the wight loss is seen to
be temporary and the consequences of this eating pattern
over long periods is likely to be detrimental even if they
do not gain more weight. However, a diet which focuses on
the minimal requirement of protein from sources in which the
essential fatty acids are abundant, particularly the omega
fatty acids will tend to satisfy the individual with less
protein and carbohydrate intake and establish sound dietary
program. The problem with modern society is those protein
sources are not as abundant as the junky monotonous proteins
sources like beef cuts and chicken cuts, where as the
healthy is fats in these animals are found in the GI tract
and other vital organs. As a result it is very difficult for
an individual to obtain 'feel good' levels of EFAs on a
minimal protein diet and thus there is probable fat craving
that results. In the wild these cravings would be targeted
to EFA rich foods like fish, and wild game body parts that
are rich in these; however these sources are absent or
poorly utilized in modern societies. The key ingredient to weight loss is to understand what
essential elements of diet are and where these elements come
from. Individuals then compare their daily intake of
elements with those essential elements and compute the
difference that needs to be either worked of or removed from
diet. Calories per say, can come from protein, fat or
carbohydrate sources. The problem is that monitoring
calories from fat sources is extremely difficult since fat
is so rich in calories and so easily convert back into fat
relative to carbohydrates. Protein sources are intermediate
between carbohydrates. Each calorie source can also be
broken into ranges, there are higher fat fat sources, there
are higher protein or protein/fat sources and lower
protein/lower fat source (like soybean products, beans, etc)
and there are higher carbohydrate sources (yucca root for
instance and lower carbohydrate sources (apples). There are
foods that offer a balance of proteins, carbohydrates and
fats at high or moderate levels. It is much easier to
monitor food calories from food sources rich in carbs than
in fats, because you get many fold higher calories per gram,
and sources of protein have varying concentrations of
protein that are in different protein rich foods, and most
people do not know the difference between a lean protein
food and a rich protein food so that this calorie source
along with fat are particularly dangerous.
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