Re: OT Loose 50lbs walking across the Rio-Grand

On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:28:35 -0500, "firstjois"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> did some sarious thank'n and
scribbled:

>Not sure this is sooo off topic.  It deals with exercise and diet.  I think
>we were born to walk and any process that reduces our time walking would
>increase our weight. The abstract didn't mention the ages of the women in
>question and I wonder how the study would have looked if they compared same
>age females and looked at the years in the US Vs years working in data
>processing or as a secretary.

Yes, I was milling over this same issue at lunch, obviously
a woman who is older will have better english proficiency
than a younger woman. The other issue being years in the
U.S. and older woman is more likely to have more years in
the U.S. versus a younger woman. However there is a 2 pt BMI
difference

>Too many sweets and too many starches.  Isn't every other person you know
>now on the Atkins or South Beach Diet?

Mexican diet is very high in starch, corn beans and rice if
you are poor, suppliment cactus and salsa. How come they
weigh 50 lbs less than their counterparts on the other side
of the border who eat alot more beef, chicken, and protein
rich foods. In mexico, as you move up in income you have
protein from cabrito, chicken and pork. I have serious
qualms about the Atkins diet, right now because of the food
allergies the protien rich foods are highly restricted, I
have a high starch diet very little protein and fish oil as
the major source of lipid. I am holding at about 176 down
from a peak of about 189 when I was eating just small
amounts of beef, chicken, etc. With a constantly low
protein diet, no matter where or how I get my carbohydrates
I maintain a weight within 2 lbs of this weight. 

  I have a problem with the Atkins diet. I think those folks
who cannot loose weight are in a bad situation because they
go on a protein poor diet, but the essential fatty acids
mostly come from protein rich foods, and thus the
proteinaceous foods they are eating junky with regard to
these EFAs and thus they crave more of them. If they focused
on protein sources rich in the EFAs they could probably eat 
less and feel satisfied. Its no surprise to me that Atkins
died prematurely, his injuries probably were compounded when
his liver and kidneys exploded[joke for all those lawyers
out there that do not know me well]. 

  The basic problem with americans, they are trying to
justify their extremely poor eating habits. We can look at
the following as exemplary. 

1. Blaming the health care industry on rising health cost.
  By far the most expensive cost to the health care industry
as a collective are the increases in cost as a result of
increasing overweight and obesity in the United States.
Consider the following. We put money into the health care
system and educational system to put kids through school
such that they go into employment between 18 and 24 years of
age and remain employed until they are 65. During most of
this period under proper diet most people will need 50 to
500$ of health care per year. However as we can see even
prior to entering the workplace increasing numbers of kids
are being treated for type II diabetes (also called fatty
liver diabetes, whose age and weight of onset may have a
difference with genetics) and other obsity related
disorders. Type II diabetes increases markedly the risk of
heart attack and stroke and markedly increased the risk of
death and moribund disease and dramatically increases the
recovery time from heart attack and stroke. 

2. Grapling at obviously foolish diet and lifestyle habits
to combat disorders that their grandmothers and greatgrand
mothers, emperically, easily avoided. 

3. Obsession in this country with Bigger, More powerfuls.
Bigger houses, nicer aminities, SUVs bigger more powerfuls
SUVs. Smaller yards, hiring lawn maintainance folks, usually
not the kids in the neigborhood but some guy from mexico. 
Americans assume they can circumvent their health care
problems by charging everything to their credit card. When I
was a kid if a man or woman sat in their car and it leaned
to one side, we had a good laugh. No problem now-a-days,
they just buy a heavier car with heavier shocks. 

4. Acid-Reflux disorder. Hey, its not your fault, its your
bodies fault. I would be willing to bet that in a majoirty
of individuals with Acid Reflux disease, they have eaten a
heavy lunch, it has only partially digested and then
followed up with a moderate to heavy dinner which the body
has put digestion on hold indefinitely. Then they probably
snack until they go to bed. Doctors ask 'what time before
you go to bed do you eat', '6 PM, 4 hours before bedtime'.
Oh you must have acid reflux disease, take this prevacid' 
When I used to eat, meat, I used to have intermittant reflux
problems no matter what time I would eat dinner in the
evening, problem was that lunch was not anywhere near
digested and dinners digestion was put on hold. Since I have
switched diet, I don't eat any meat at dinner, and a small
portion of fish at lunch. I can eat my dinner 5 minutes
before I go to bed and not get reflux. The problem with
reflux is that the duodenal sphinctar muscle is trying to
push the food 'south' but there is no place for the pushed
foods to go, whereas the stomach senses new food in the
digestion system, dumps more acid, but all that is happening
is the food is bouncing up and down the upper GI tract. 
  The base problem with acid reflux is that throughout the
day individuals consume with no regard to the calorie
requirement or fill levels given the sources of calories and
the amount of digestive effort required to extract those
calories. Overeating can, therefore, be dangerous in 2 ways.
1. It can create huge spikes in glucose
2. It can create great demands on the bodies ability to 
breakdown food (such as gristle in meat)
3. It can cause the accumulation of oil in the GI tract
which 1 and 2 combined can obstruct function. 
Genetically speaking some individuals may have robust liver
function and circumvent glucose spikes, they may have good
lipase and protease secretion and thus be able to break down
protein and fat and clear them from the GI. If they are this
type of person then they can enjoy [or suffer] acute obesity
from overconsumptions. Those calories are going to move as
efficiently as possible from their GI tract to their fat
cells. The rest of US however are going to have negative
feedback that we should learn to recognize and observe these
warning signs as we are eating to avoid overconsumption. 

5. The NIH did a study on people who had early onset type II
diabetes. Amazingly they found a significant correlation
between individuals with type II diabetes and the _desire to
own_ a large SUV. This suggests that type II diabetes is not
just a matter of lack of exercise, but it is a consequence
of a rather self-indulgent self-delusional lifestyles of a
society that has, in essence become a society of deluded
gluttons. Once again we have to reflect on the various
denials above and the outlook of individuals lives as a best
explanation scenario for the rise of obesity in the US and
the rise of digestive related individuals. I had a relative
for instance who was of relatively thin built who was
suffering from allergies and all kinds of health problems.
3 of the 4 doctors told her she should eat more, and as she
ate more she became sicker. The 4th doctor put her in a tank
and found that body fat was way to high relative to muscle,
told her to go back to what she was eating and start
exercising. The allergies and other health problems rapidly
subsided. 


   It's unfortunate that the lifestyle has become addictive
to immigrants to this country because it is often most
distructive to this population. Within Houston, Type II
Diabetes is a major factor and one of the primary reasons is
that we have a large hispanic population in which I would
say 75% of the genetic origins is native americans. Their
traditional diet was high carbohydrate low/lean protein
diets (bean, insects, fish, small mammals). Carbohydrates
should be considered a cause of diabetes, however Type II
diabetes is more insideous than that. This disease results
with the fat surrounding the vital organs of the body
disrupts the ability to control sugar levels and does not
neccesarily mean there is an excess of sugar producing
foods. In a traditional hispanic society an individual would
eat a small amount of carbohydate in the morning, go out in
the feilds and work, the carbohydrate would then cause
glucose levels to rise, but at the same time exercise would
place a demand on the glucose, by almorzar (brunch) a
slightly larger breakfast is eaten followed by a heavier
working period that extended 1 pm in the afternoon. This is
then followed by a midday siesta following a moderate lunch
and then from 3 PM till dusk work in the feilds followed by
a heavy dinner. Having worked with people from mexico, I
noticed that the lunches tended to be corn (de maiz) tacos
with rice and beans, potato and beans, potatoes and cactus.
In american this is replaced by flour tacos (flour and fat,
de harina) and the cactus is replaced by meat, like carne
guidasa, pollo guisada, fajitas, etc. 
  It is all too common in Houston, I see so many native
americans of mesoamerican origin that come to Houston and
within months to years begin developing rapid weight
increases followed by health problems, digestive problems,
and life threatening diabetes when that same individual was
in perfect health in mesoamerica (other than being
frequently hungry). This one young lady I recently was asked
to help is a 32 year old female with 3 children who has been
working in the US for 3 years, she recently began suffering
from dizzy spells and went to a number of doctors to treat
her, this vertigo I see alot, particularly in recent
immigrants who cannot handle the level of oil and protein in
the US diet. The basic problem is that all the natural
sources of vitamins and minerals in the U.S. have been
corrupted by food processing and markets where natural
foods can be bought are becoming increasingly difficult to
find. Often the correction for the problem is to connect the
person to the market by which they can buy and cook the
foods they were eating in mesoamerica and their problem
subsides. I am sure that some of this problem is cause by
food allergies and the most likely suspects are 'adjuvent'
like animal and vegetable proteins (heavy beef, chicken,
Pork and nuts). There is also some concern that these
individuals are reacting to antibotics or other substances
that accumulate in the meat products, substances not in the
natural foods found in mexico. 
  Even so, whatever level of meat and cheese they are eating
in mesoamerica is coupled with the increased energy output
required for survival versus decreased energy output, here.
This change in activity (Lat Amer to US) probably alters
digestion resulting in the slowing down of food processing
in the small intestine increasing the risk for antigen
recognition and also penetration of the small intestional
wall and creation of foci for attraction of T-cells. This
reaction could be causing the accumulation of abnormal fluid
around the gi tract and result in dehydration even as the
individual fells full and consumes what appears to be
adequate amounts of water. Doctors in the U.S. are all but
oblivious and this young lady did not recieve adequate
treatment for her condition until she fell in a bathtub and
was put on an I.V. in the hospital, after three days she
cleaned out and felt good again. I know these symptoms well
because I have them and I have been through exactly what
this lady has been through, with myself it started at age
28. The culprit appears to be the HLA DQ allelotype that is
not associated with glutin intolerance (which causes a
similar more severe cilliary disease), these 2 alleles are
not common in europeans but appear to be at much higher
frequency in Indians, certain middle easterners and native
americans. [I have to give credit to EJ for pointing me to
this problem].
  A third issue related is filling. What is full. What is a
serving. When you go to a restaurant and order a meal is
that a 'meal' or is it something else. Americans third
problem, that my japanese wife claims, is that americans
have no idea when they are full or overfull. 
A person can generally be considered full when they
eat to a level (not a volumn) of food in which addition of 
more food causes discomfort. This volumn can change
depending on what is going on from previous meals/activity
in the GI tract. Many americans will go to lunch, order 
a meal and eat the entire meal whether or not they have
sufficient room for that meal. Because food from previous
meals are still being digested the body then has to process
both incoming stomach contents and contents in digestion,

 Conclusion. Many of the worlds societies have been raised
in cultures where most foods were carbohydrate rich and this
was aproblematic because the carbohydrates fed neccesary
energy output to survive, while protein rich sources
definitely benifited humans such as during childgrowth or
pregnancy the staple of survival was the
carbohydrate/vegetable rich diet. Obesity in these primative
and early agrarian societies was restricted to individuals
of advanced age who maintained dental health and had a
social base that provided them with calories after they
slowed down in activity, this pattern is still seen in the
third world. because people live longer now-a-days they must
maintain better diet in their older years than the
prehistoric counterparts would have; however americans have
poor dietary habits from a young age and find it difficult
to adjust to requirements of older age. 
  While it may be true that glucose generated from starch is
the primary observed anomoly in diabetes, in most
individuals the cause indirectly is not carbohydrate
overconsumption but 'fattening' as a result of the total
base of calories consumed and in the worst case scenarios
the primary source of fattening calories is protein/fat
which carry 4 to 10 times the amount of calories per gram
consumed relative to differential hydrated levels of starch.
Because of the benefit to availability levels in the
primative societies modern humans crave these items when
available even beyond healthy levels of consumption.
Secondarily if they were working during the carbohydrate
spike within the digestive track the glucose would be used
as rapidly as it appears taking stress of the catabolic
systems within the liver and other parts of the body. 
  However, the appearance of digestive problems individuals
as they transition from traditional to commerciallized diets
reveals that traditional carbohydrate diets are not the
cause of all health problems, and the high protein diet as
proposed by Atkin may be very dangerous to individuals whose
genetic background is from societies with low-protein or low
red-tough-meat diets. Diets that may be difficult for many
peoples to digest as a staple food in the diet.  
  The level of exercise that one engages is also part of the
problem, I would like to think that for every calory
consumed the body is more likely to find a healthy use of
that calorie if it is being converted to energy quickly than
if the body has to convert it to a third party storage
material which then has to be converted back for energy. As
one observes the dietary patterns of traditional societies
the calories are often consumed at levels and times as best
to feed them into the daily work activities; whereas in
american people tend to eat meals or snacks at times
irregarless of when the most strenous activities are. An
excellent example are the holidays when people pack on the
calories with no effort to exercise, and then weeks later
try to take off the sugar, proteins and fat converted to
triacyclglycerides and packed to their stomachs, buttocks
and thighs. This packing on of food stuffs is a major
contributing factor to diabetes in suceptible peoples. In
addition it often does considerable damage to the GI tract
that can then lay the foundations for diseases of a great
number of types. 
  The ability to sense when on is full and to take
precautions to avoid side effects of overfilling. This issue
is what I think predisposes the carbohydrate overload driven
form of diabetes and is easily prevented. 


 As a result I can make the statement that obesity and
related diseases are more likely caused by the bodies
tolerance to higher energy substances in which the overall
result of the permissive overconsumption process is the
accumulation of fat. In many but not all individuals this
will result in the structural and physical debilitating
affects (skeletomuscular, hernias, etc) and this will tend
to occur in individuals who have a genetic background in
which obesity in the past would be possible and would
have some selective advantage, except into old age. 
The lapse into obesity by individuals with different
genetics that are less than amicable to excess calories can
take several symptomatic directions, in some individuals you
will see  diabetes, in others digestive disorders, and still
others premature cardiovascular diseases. The weight that
triggers the clinical observations of abnormality, what I
would call the individual 'obese' weight is going to be a
factor of dietary sources of calories, factor of age, and a
factor of daily activities and excercise. The protein
tolerace of individuals of different genetic backgrounds of
course can vary, and dietary shifts to a moderate protein,
low carbohydrate diet, low fat diet may be beneficial given
their background; however given the rise in type II diabetes
and the peoples in which this raise is seen, I would argue
that promoting the atkins diet to these people is not
a wise thing to do.  

All in all the high protein diet pathway is a dangerous
pathway suitable for a minority of individuals whose
evolution is tied to pastoral or longer associations with
modern societies where red meat has traditionally been
abundant. Even in these instances the wight loss is seen to
be temporary and the consequences of this eating pattern
over long periods is likely to be detrimental even if they
do not gain more weight. However, a diet which focuses on
the minimal requirement of protein from sources in which the
essential fatty acids are abundant, particularly the omega
fatty acids will tend to satisfy the individual with less
protein and carbohydrate intake and establish sound dietary
program. The problem with modern society is those protein
sources are not as abundant as the junky monotonous proteins
sources like beef cuts and chicken cuts, where as the
healthy is fats in these animals are found in the GI tract
and other vital organs. As a result it is very difficult for
an individual to obtain 'feel good' levels of EFAs on a
minimal protein diet and thus there is probable fat craving
that results. In the wild these cravings would be targeted
to EFA rich foods like fish, and wild game body parts that
are rich in these; however these sources are absent or
poorly utilized in modern societies. 
  The key ingredient to weight loss is to understand what
essential elements of diet are and where these elements come
from. Individuals then compare their daily intake of
elements with those essential elements and compute the
difference that needs to be either worked of or removed from
diet. Calories per say, can come from protein, fat or
carbohydrate sources. The problem is that monitoring
calories from fat sources is extremely difficult since fat
is so rich in calories and so easily convert back into fat
relative to carbohydrates. Protein sources are intermediate
between carbohydrates. Each calorie source can also be
broken into ranges, there are higher fat fat sources, there
are higher protein or protein/fat sources and lower
protein/lower fat source (like soybean products, beans, etc)
and there are higher carbohydrate sources (yucca root for
instance and lower carbohydrate sources (apples). There are
foods that offer a balance of proteins, carbohydrates and
fats at high or moderate levels. It is much easier to
monitor food calories from food sources rich in carbs than
in fats, because you get many fold higher calories per gram,
and sources of protein have varying concentrations of
protein that are in different protein rich foods, and most
people do not know the difference between a lean protein
food and a rich protein food so that this calorie source
along with fat are particularly dangerous.