Re: Origin and Diffusion of mtDNA Haplogroup X

On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:37:09 +0000, Doug Weller
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> did some sarious thank'n and
scribbled:

>>It should also be mentioned that Reidla et al.  believe the Altaians
>>only acquired haplogroup X within the last 6,700 years.
>
>What are the implications of this?
>
>Do I gather that one shouldn't think that this article is the last word?
>:-)

This is probably diffusive backflow. Again this is
speculation based on HLA, but to me it looks as if when the
motion of genetic material began from WEA region into the
middle east it did appear to pick up genetic material from
the middle east and carry that material eastward. One of the
key HLA is the A28 (A*6801) which appears to have come
recently from africa. This HLA drops markedly in frequency
from Japan into SE asia and is completely absent in many
populations. It is substantially higher in gene frequency in
the Ainu versus the Japanese and pockets of this allele are
found in siberia at varying frequencies, also present in the
New world population in combination with New World specific
haplotypes. The path of this migration has been hard to
deduce, at present certain groups in pakistan would appear
to mark the edge of the migration per say and the caucasus
marks the other edge. Because to the rarity of the allele I
use other haps that are frequently found with this allele to
help track it.  Going up and around into the biakal region
the tibetians mark another edge and the northern han to the
south, as one heads east this appears to break down as
streaks of the WEA/ME haps flow into se asia (confirmed by
other studies of mongolian genes). The oddity within the
data set is that the region between kazakhstan and
czechosolovakia on up into sweden is particularly devoid of
the haplotypes that make it appear that these peoples have a
certain degree of isolation relative to rather large
migrations across the whole of eurasia, this is particularly
strange given the recent history. If my estimation is
correct the ME component haps and alleles found in native
americans occurred 18 to 20 kya, and redistributions within
central north asia occurred after the last iceage. 
  It is understandable to me why the swedes and polish have
lower levels of these haplotypes, because swedes appear to
have been largely a more or less derivative population of
the islandic population of NW europe; therefore they would
be on the other side of the regional diffusion line that
formed before or as these groups left WEA; however, the
absence in the populations north of this region gives some
possible indications that during the LGM that peoples in
europe vacated along a southern route, possibly crossing
over into north africa as they headed eastward. 
 
  To give an example of the HLA and the connects.
1. I found strong association between belgium and armenian 
  (reason unknown, path unknown).
2. strong direct association between the basque and the
czech and the svanetians (reason unknown, path unknown).
3. Other studies have shown a connection between the
bulgarians, italians, turkic and kurdish, and jews. In many
instances it looked as gene flow was from west to east. 
4. The omani looks as if they have haplotypes either directe
africa (west) or from western europe (not discounting
haplotypes shared with india)

Whereas the north asians group, discounting the affects of
the vikings, appear to have many haplotypes shared with
middle eastern and indian, and these have older and less
easily established connections with africa. These haplotypes
have some similarity with those found in europe at low and
scattered (undergone recombination) frequencies. 

Therefore my conclusions is that humans settled into
eurasia, probably between india and the caucasus and moved
bilaterally both north and south (archaeologically suggest
also west and the A3 Cw7 B7 haplotype is in agreement.
Subsequent waves from africa and europe replaced the
population in the middle eastern region and one of these
waves combined, and then migrated NE into the biakal region
heading west. Over time the peoples who lived along this
route diffused outward into adjacent groups. If these people
moved up 34 kya in accord with the archeaology, the the
prime period of african readdition would be between 34 and
18 kya in the middle eastern region (cautioning that prime
does not exclude recent addition, notable in the Basque with
A29 Cw16 B44 and in the greeks with a number of recent
numbian allelotypes). 
  Also, I should add that there appears to be a genetic
connect between the sardinians and the romanians that
reaches the finnic population, more than likely a source of
admixture. Sardianian haplotypes do appear in europe, and
may have been an early arrival admixing with the central
asian arrivals and later pushed by western immigrants from
africa back eastward. So there are several wavefront
potentials that need to be considered. There are several
papers now reporting as I previously did that sardinian
population appears to be older and have a separate
population history (relative to africa) relative to the rest
of europe. Thus there is tremendous amount of complexity
with the settling of europe. In fact there is little in the
way of easily understood zones in all of eurasia. Of those
the more easily understood are the Irish/Cornish and the
ryukuan in terms of places that were settled and not later
overrun with tremendous levels of gene flow from another
source.  Potentially the saami and the lapps might represent
the edge of the uralic gradient and this would create
another anchor point. 
  
  Note also Gisele's critique, and also that Herrstats
worked has been strongly critiqued in the literature. Expect
there to be further reanalysis of these. 

  Gone are the days of people flat out saying there were
singular waves of migration from africa from a single
direction. We can only surmise why they said these types of
things to begin with, given the data of even their
publication cycle was in disaggrement and the coming times
of molecular evolution will be people, who UPON realizing
their work is under public scrutiny int the Public trenches,
take note sit down and SERIOUSLY consider their data in
light of everything else that has been published including
other peoples data and data from other genetic studies. 
  Gisele was one of the first to point out that mtDNAs had
been eliminated from study in new world because of
post-columbian contamination even though more similar haps
were found in asia and elsewhere outside of europe. The
whole issue of X has been undeniably critical of the way
native american genetic studies have been done, because it
turns out people willy-nilly excluded sequences they did not
beleive where native american even though genetic studies in
siberia and asia were not sufficient to rule out potential
ancestral-descendant relationships.