Re: Federer serve speed question...

"Whisper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> "ImHuge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> > > Anyway, Wilander had already gone
> > > > through a period where it looked like he was through winning.
> > >
> > > What does that mean?
> >
> > It means after winning his first 4 GS titles, he had about a 3 year
> > drought before winning his last 3 in 1988.  You don't usually see that
> > length of time elapse between slams.
> 
> You're clueless.  Wilander won 1 slam/yr '82 to '85, had a poor '86, but was
> r/up '87 FO/US to Lendl in tight 4-setters before his big '88.  To me it
> looks like he only had 1 bad yr ('86).....

Like I said, it had been nearly 3 years since he won one after winning
one per year from '82 to '85 as you helpfully pointed out.  Read what
I said and then make a list of players who have won GS titles with 3
year droughts inbetween.  Without looking it up, I am betting it will
be a short one.

 
> Most GS champions have their time
> > in the sun.  When the sun sets, its over.  I recall Mac in an
> > interview around '86 saying that Wilander was done also.  Little did
> > he know..
> > >
> > > 1988
> > > > was a resurgence, and it honestly did not surprise me when he fell off
> > > > after '88.
> > >
> > > Bullshit.  Irrelevant anyway....
> >
> > Call it bullshit if you want, but I am not surprised to see players
> > whose main weapon is their mind fall off.  Like Hewitt, Wilander
> > needed to be at the top of his game mentally because that was his main
> > 'weapon'.  He obviously achieved that in 1988 in a big way, so it was
> > not a big surprise to see him have a let down.  Hewitt is having a
> > let-down now, but based on the Wilander example, I give him one chance
> > to come back around--but only once.
> >
> 
> Jimbo?

Huh?

> 
> 
> > >
> > > His game required a high level of focus and he had 'burned
> > > > out' once already.
> > >
> > > Yeah, we're all geniuses in hindsight....
> > >
> > Some of us who have played a lot and seen all types are fairly
> > perceptive in real time.
> 
> 
> Well, thanks.  Thought you'd never notice....

Yeah, sure.  I'll recognize you when Roddick wins 3/4 next year.  

> 
> 
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mac in '84 peaked.  He then got married to a
> > > > freak, took 6 months off and was basically diverted in his attention
> > > > of being the best tennis player.
> > >
> > > I think, basically, you're full of shit....
> >
> > For a guy who presents himself as a former local tennis star, you show
> > remarkably little understanding of what it takes to make it and then
> > stay at the top.  You also show no understanding of how a situation as
> > happened to Seles could permanently change her.  It is not unusual at
> > all for #1 players to drop off once their 100% focus at being the best
> > is compromised.
> 
> ....yet Graf was 100% in there all career?  If you can't be impartial don't
> waste bandwidth...

Nobody is 100% throughout.  I never said that.  Seles was stabbed by
an attacker who wanted to kill her over tennis.  You may be a big
strong man who beats off on the computer all day, and I see you have
argued this same thing over and over and over in this ng, but not
everyone is as tough as you. As for wasting bandwidth yacking about
tennis, I have a loooooong way to go to catch up with you.

> 
> 
> > >
> > >
> > > Seles seemed to have things pretty
> > > > well under control with a close and supportive family.  She was
> > > > focused on tennis and would have won a bunch more slams almost
> > > > certainly.
> > >
> > > If by 'bunch' you mean about 2, maybe 3, yes possible....
> >
> > 2 or 3 easily.  I'm thinking more like 6-8+.  In a prior post you
> > mentioned Graf would have taken the #1 back by winning the AU.  That
> > begs the question--what would make you think Seles was going to lose
> > the AU given her record there?
> 
> The fact she saved MP's v players like MJF & Huber before going on to win AO
> a coupe of times?  Oh hang on, she just let them get to MP to demonstrate
> she could win anyway..... ; )

Watch out.  Your fav Roddick was a point away from not having a slam. 
And you don't think much of Nalbandian as I recall.

> 
> 
> 
> Since she likely would have won the
> > event, this means she would have pulled further away from Graf--no?
> 
> 
> No......
> 
> 
> > > She may have had problems at some point, packed on weight
> > > > as she ended up doing,
> > >
> > > You think she woulda got fat anyway?  I think most people would turn
>  obese
> > > after suffering a 3cm cut to the shoulder... she woulda stayed slim &
>  trim
> > > otherwise....
> >
> > Your mimizilization of what occured by repeating the 3 cm cut line is
> > a joke.
> 
> You mean reporting the facts.  Yes, guilty........

You are minimizing the situation to suit your beliefs.  Your beliefs
could even be correct, but your minimization of the thing as only a 3
cm cut makes you a fool regardless.


 
> 
> It is quite obvious what you are trying to do as well. This
> > sort of tactic is always suspect.  And I'm the one full of shit?
> 
> It seems you're making every excuse under the sun for Seles, yet Graf was
> 100% peak all career.  You are a big joke...

Again, only Seles was stabbed by a guy who wanted to end her
career/kill her.  YOu are a moron if you think that compares to
succumbing to the normal wear and tear, mental and physical, that ends
up taking out every great player.

> 
> 
> > > but there is no reason to believe that was
> > > > imminent.  I'm not trying to shoot down your obvious favorite player,
> > > > Graf.
> > >
> > > Henin is my favourite as she's clearly the most talented woman player
>  ever -
> > > by a significant margin.  

You have a gift for absolute statements on subjective matters. That
stems from your insecurity I would guess.  Henin is not clearly the
most talented womens player although she does have a very nifty
backhand.

Graf was the best in absolute terms.  Anyone
>  who
> > > thrashes peak-Seles 6-2 6-1 when in a slump period is beyond
>  criticism....
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't care that much about it.  I thought it would be obvious
> > > > to anyone that Seles' GS winnings were cut short by more than a few
> > > > titles.
> > >
> > > No, as per my Wilander/Mac examples above, which you failed to
>  discount....
> >
> > Again, you demonstrate remarkably little understanding for a guy who
> > was supposedly a good player.
> 
> 
> So because I refuse to stick my head up my arse, I show little
> understanding....?
> 
> 
> 
> > >
> > > I really think that Seles would have stacked up to anyone,
> > > > including the Williams sisters--
> > >
> > > ..at her best, no doubt.  She was arguably 2nd to only Graf at
>  respective
> > > peaks, but I suspect Henin will overtake & take 2nd....
> > >
> >
> > I say she was better than Graf.  She had the game to beat Graf.  I
> > wonder who their contemporaries at the time would rather take their
> > chances against?
> 
> 
> Wonder why top notch peak seles squeaked past Graf 6-2 3-6 10-8 at FO (Graf
> making twice as many errors), & got hammered at Wimbledon....?
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > she was way more consistent and could
> > > > jerk an opponent around like nobody else.
> > >
> > > Yes, of course the likes of Martinez/ASV made it easier for Seles to get
>  to
> > > every ball.  Henin, Graf & Serena woulda made her look less impressive I
> > > suspect....
> >
> > Serena maybe.  Seles would beat her on consistency--she was far
> > superior in that dept. Graf had the forehand, but could in no way keep
> > up the pace off the backhand wing.
> 
> You're minimizing the effectiveness of the deep slice backhand -
> understandable given you've never been a 'local tennis star' & basically are
> guessing....

I think we are at loggerheads.  You think getting stabbed in the back
is just like any other injury and had little if no effect on Seles'
career slam total, or should not have.  I totally disagree and think
you are seriously misguided in your thinking.  Your name calling
amuses me as does your uninformed observation on my understanding of
the slice backhand.  Off the ground, it has always been my most
notable shot, and I am a 5.0 player who played college on a good div.
2 team you stupid prick (I throw that in since this discussion has
reduced to namecalling).  I love the shot and can execute it far
better than most.  That said, it has its limitations.  Since I have
had to make age/injury adjustments to my game, and cannot get to the
net like I used to, I have hit a lot more topspin/driving backhands in
the last few years. Have to to keep up with good baseliners off the
ground.  I probably went through a 10 year period where I came over
about 3 backhands a match, and only if I was under pressure by a guy
at net.  Graf had a phenomenal slice backhand--I am sure it is the
best ever in women's tennis.  But for a pure baseline player, I think
you need more than that in today's game.  And to me, Seles is the
forerunner of women's power tennis.  But anyway, if there is one
tennis shot not to try and school me on, it is definitely the slice
backhand--followed closely by the forehand volley.  If you could help
me with my inconisistent service toss, I would be much obliged.  But I
am sure better players than you have tried to help with that over the
last 30 years.

> 
> 
> Seles had the perfect game to
> > exploit that and seemed to have no problems digging up Graf's slice.
> 
> Yes, that's what I saw at Wimbledon....
> 
> 
> 
> > She hit hard and accurately from both sides and hit the best angles
> > ever seen.  If anything, I think she would have improved vs. Graf.
> > Pretty simple game plan really.  Keep forcing Graf to the ad court and
> > wait to rip one up the line or cc to the deuce--if necessary blast
> > another into the ad corner.  Nobody jerked an opponent around better
> > than Seles.  Seles could never play the net for shit and she wasn't
> > fast on her feet.  But her ability to get to balls was markedly better
> > prior to the stabbing than after.  Graf would have needed to mix it up
> > more and get to the net--not her first nature.
> 
> 
> So you seriously think she wouldn't have gotten fat & slow anyway?  That's
> moronic...

Never said that she wouldn't, jerkoff.  I just think she had a few
years to really shine.  You constantly putting words in the mouths of
others does not boost your credibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > The big problem you have is
> > > > that by admitting the obvious,
> > >
> > > It really couldn't be any more obvious....
> >
> > What, that Graf's GS total would be less and Seles' more?  No sane
> > person would doubt this.
> 
> And why would someone who won something like
> > 6 of the last 8 only win 2 more in subsequent years?  Oh yes, Graf was
> > coming out of that slump.  LOL!
> 
> If you look at seles' slam record closely you'll realise she only had 1
> convincing win (FO '91).  She was in losing position/saved MPs in all her
> other wins.  Everyone knows this, including biased newbies like yourself, &
> it's why she isn't considered amongst the elite by tennis analysts.  Or do
> you think it's some sort of coincidence the experts don't regard her as
> highly as say Conolly...?

If you believe her success was halved by what happened, you don't try
to compare her to others because you can't.  I don't really care what
'tennis analyst' say, although I think most give more credit to Seles
than you do.  I'm not biased.  I thought Seles was a giggly little
flake who was blowing off Wimbledon and I thought a lot of Graf.  MN
was my favorite, but i have always been partial to s-v'rs.
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > it implies that Graf would have several
> > > > less titles than the 22 or whatever she has, and would therefore take
> > > > a backseat to MN.  I think that I'm done with this near-senseless
> > > > debate--I really didn't think I would run into this in a group of
> > > > tennis observers.
> > >
> > >
> > > eh?  This is tennis doomkoff....
> >
> > You need to consult with Max on your German.
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You're not being genuine if you think Seles wouldn't have gotten fat
>  if
>  she
> > > > > weren't stabbed....
> > > >
> > > > I think the sustained period off the court sped that up considerably.
> 
> 
> She was 19 idiot - if you can't make a full physical recovery at that age,
> from a tiny cut like that, then you're full of shit... : )

How about a mental recovery from being vicsiously attacked.  Kind of
puts tennis in a different perspective I would think.  I have a
sister, who despite great success in later years was a bit more
vulnerable at 19. Some would handle it differently than others, and
some would have been less affected.  That was never the debate I
entered into.  Try to follow along and quit throwing out the chaff.
> 
> 
> > > > The point is that only a fool would think she was not going to win
> > > > more slams, and some of those at Graf's expense.  The girl was
> > > > rolling.
> > >
> > >
> > > Come back to me when you have a sensible explanation for Wilander/Mac
> > > demise.  Age can't be used as they were 23/25.....
> >
> > Their situations were different from eachother's, and completely
> > different than Seles' unprecedented situation.
> 
> 
> Pathetic excuses..... how about showing some impartiality & giving Graf
> consideration for all her problems?  Never happened?  ; )

You are right on this.  Graf did have the shithead old man and that
must have been difficult on her.  Different than being knifed in the
back, but certainly something that could and would affect a player. 
Finally, you make a valid point-- I assume this is what you are
referring to?

> 
> 
> And Muster's is
> > different from all the other's as well.  You trying to lump them all
> > together as though they are the same points to the frailty of your
> > argument.  With your assumptiveness about the Seles situation, I would
> > say you deserve to be mugged at some point.
> 
> I know it wouldn't effect my game in the slightest......

You don't know shit about it although I grant that you are one
insensitive bastard.  And although you were a 'local star', or had the
reputation as such, I don't really equate that to being #1 in the
world.