Re: Sports for Novice Applicants

i didnt play baseball past 10th grade... and i cant really speak at all to
football (no more than many other fans unless having a roommate for 3
years on the football team counts), but even at lower levels baseball
teaches a proactive positioning that helps some in ultimate, though i
didnt figure out how to utilize it right away.

for example, as a 3rd basemen, you know your pitcher is probably a two
pitch pitcher (if hes good... if hes not good its probably less).

a typical lineup also has non-hitters backloaded (and this is much more
extreme than professional baseball, where a non-hitter might hit 250 without
power... im talking like 150 and slugging 180)

i guess ill do this all for righthanded hitters, left handed hitters its
almost always (but not always) reversed..

anyway... the thought goes like this. 0-2, you know junk is coming. the
hitter knows junk is probably coming too, but it doesnt really
matter. against a righty you shade much more down the line if no one is
on.

if its 0-2 against a non hitter, you dont really move as much, becasue the
non-hitter probably cant catch up to the 80 mile per hour fastball
anyway... though youd shade some, because initially youll be playing about
3 steps left and a smidge in assumign theres no way that the guy is going
to be able to pull the ball.


conversely, 3-1 or 3-0 against their big guns, youre not really playing
left so much as more back. Fastball is coming, they may or may not pull
it, but the ball is probably going to be hit hard. Hard enough that you
can use that extra time to go get it and still throw the guy out.

Even in what might be considered a neutral count (0-0, 1-1), youre still
staying back because if the pitcher will win the battle it will probably
be on a flyout, foul ball or called strike as opposed to a weak grounder
from a strong hitter. This is comparable to a deep deep sprinting in 5
yards on a non-thrower, and then when its swung to someone that is good at
putting it, getting the hell back while the disc is going to the hucker
and not before.

It gets trickier from there in baseball. Even as early as 13 youre taught
to break at the last second to adjust to position as to not tip off the
other team as to your intentions in many situations with runners on. Im
told that higher up you sometimes send out the wrong information on
purpose with your field position (ie shift the outfielders the wrong way)
to try and induce a smart batter to think a fastball is coming. Then you
bring the off speed pitch, but of course you need to keep that low. Cant
say for sure how much of that actually goes on. Im pretty sure the
announcers screw up about half of the actual position alignments you see
in games...

Zone defense again has alot of similar comparisons.

Ultimate theres alot of this going on too. Really good deeps in a zone or
even man will bait someone that has a tendency to put it, but their ego
might be bigger than their arm, or their scattershot, or its windier than
it seems. I personally cringe at any baiting (though coming up on
non-throwers always seems smart), but that kind of positioning in a zone
is more proactive than reactive. It would seem a mark's position is kind
of similar to baseball too in that its team defense. If your deep guy is
baiting, your mark better not be taking away the dump and leaving a
completely uncontested shot. Even a suspect thrower will probably hit that
for a score. At the same time you dont want to make it so hard on the
thrower that they cant get the huck off even if their receiver was alone
in the endzone, but they have swings or other options that are all of the
sudden very attractive. Instead you probably want to be playing a force
middlish zone with striaght up tendencies, especially if its a cup. That
way a cocky thrower can still put it, but will have to go over the cup,
keeping the disc in the air long enough to give the baiter a good chance.

(for those teams not sure which zones they want to run, a 2-3-2 was an
incredibly good thinking mans zone in college because it gave a veteran
team so many options, and could often hide alot of athletic deficiencies
because of the different ways you can play it.)

lastly theres the whole issue of the middle middle in a 1-3-3 or 2-3-2.
Alot of times these zones get trashed with the same crappy i/o flick, or
what have you. If im noticing the pivot has mostly a money steparound
backhand to move the disc up the field to his left, theres not much i can
really do as a middle middle, except for scream at the wing to pinch in.
If the pivot handler is dominant with an i/o flick though, and our chase
in the 1-3-3 is running an all time force flick, it will take one point
to figure that out typically (and players better than me im sure can
figure it out quicker and not forget it...), and then if thats the case,
even though as a middle middle in a 1-3-3 id usually be about 3-5 steps to
the left of the thrower trying to not give up the force side throw, i
might instead play nearly directly behind my mark, no more than a step or
two to his left when the pivot gets the disc, or at least shade that way,
because i can take that away as the middle middle (whereas i dont have the
angle if hes a dominant backhanded player... and again 90% of players will
prefer one break to the other most of the time). Then if my wing left wing
is stupid he might yell at me for leaving that potential hole that my
not-so quick ass might struggle to cover. But if my left wing is smart
hell clamp in too, making that pivot either swing it around, or throw a
bendy throw in the wind over and around the wing.


Thats pretty much proactive positioning. Football im sure has alot of it
too and even more reactive positioning, but there are definitely
good parallels to be drawn in baseball as well.

Maybe this helps... Maybe you think its crap. If anyone can explain it
better, id love to hear how they think of it.

~Dan


On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Matthew Marley Mitchell wrote:

> I was pondering to myself yesterday about the similarities of positional
> baseball defense and positional ultimate zone defense.
> You have a checklist of priorities and attack them each from the worst
> case scenario on down.  it only works when everybody plays their
> position.
>
> The best ultimate related sport/position I played was football defensive back.
> You learn to see the whole field and to poach and take advantage of weak
> offensive plays, and in turn you learn offensive mistakes.
>
> p
> <M<M<M
>
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (clancy) wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> > baseball.
> >
> > best hand to eye of any sport.  Pick up the flick and hammer almost
> > instantly. (equate flick to turning a double play).  Sport centered
> > around short bursts of sprinting.
> >
> > note: I will not defend John Kruck or David Wells they are the
> > exception not the rule.
>