Re: coming into play as something different

Thank you for clarification. I think I figured out the underlying rules,
too, and now it seems simple and consistent. The key thing I was missing
was:

419.1c Continuous effects that read “[This permanent] comes into play . . .”
or “[Objects] come into play . . .” are replacement effects.



So it happens in this order:

Replacement happens, telling me to put the AO into play tapped, or sac a
land and put the KO into play (or not).

Continuous effects are applied.

The triggered ability goes on the stack (EV's ability for instance).

I apparently mistakenly put "comes into play tapped" in the "triggered
ability" category instead of in the replacement category because I thought
that the words "comes into play" always indicate a triggered ability, when
in fact their meaning depends on the context.

-War_Pig5

"Lee Sharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "War_Pig5" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Say there's a continuous effect that changes what Something is. Does the
> > Something "come into play" already changed, or CIP, then change?
> >
> > Examples:
> >
> > If I play a forest with Ambush Commander and Elvish Vanguard in play,
does
> > EV get a counter?
>
> The Forest will come into play, and it will be an Elf as soon as it is in
> the in-play zone.  Therefore, Elvish Vanguard's ability will trigger and
> give it a counter.
>
> > If I play a land nonbasic land with a Blood Moon in play, does the
land's
> > CIP ability trigger? Is the answer the same no matter what the CIP
ability
> > is? For example, a CIP-replacement ability (like Kjeldoran Outpost) or a
> > CIP-tapped ability (Abandoned Outpost)? (I'm also pretty sure that I
can't
> > tap KO for W before they it gets changed into a mountain by the Blood
> Moon,
> > but I might as well mention this for verification.)
>
> These are different abilities.  These modify the come-into-play event;
they
> do not modify characteristics of permanent's in play, or wait until
> something has already entered play (Elvish Vanguard).  These must be
> processed and will still take effect.  Abandoned Output will come into
play
> as tapped, but with the subtype Island.  Similar logic applied to
Kjeldoran
> Outpost.
>
> > I hope the answer is that it CIP changed that would make sense to me.
>
> It makes sense, and is also how it works.
>
> --
> Lee Sharpe
> DCI Level 2 Judge