Re: coming into play as something different

War_Pig5 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Say there's a continuous effect that changes what Something is. Does the
>Something "come into play" already changed, or CIP, then change?

This depends on what the rest of your question has to do with.

Continuous effects are applied BEFORE seeing what triggers off stuff coming
into play. So for the purposes of triggered abilities, the thing is already
changed.

Continuous effects are applied AFTER applying replacement effects, "comes
into play with", "comes into play as"/"as this comes into play", and "this
comes into play tapped" [but a continuous effect that says "This kind of
stuff comes into play tapped" is applied during applying continuous effects"].
For these four purposes [and maybe one more I'm not remembering] the thing
won't have become the thing-it-becomes-because-of-continuous-effect-changing-it
yet.

What was the question you were actually wondering about?

>Examples:
>
>If I play a forest with Ambush Commander and Elvish Vanguard in play, does
>EV get a counter?

Elvish Vanguard has a triggered ability. The continuous effect from Ambush
Commander has already been applied when you check to see whether EV's ability
triggers. The Forest is an Elf Forest land creature, so triggers the EV ability
and it gets a counter.

>If I play a land nonbasic land with a Blood Moon in play, does the land's
>CIP ability trigger?

No; the land will be a Mountain before you check for triggered abilities.

>Is the answer the same no matter what the CIP ability is?

No, see above.

>For example, a CIP-replacement ability (like Kjeldoran Outpost)

will still need to be dealt with -before- applying the Blood Moon's continuous
effect

>or a CIP-tapped ability (Abandoned Outpost)?

will still have applied before applying continuous effects, you'll end up
with a tapped Mountain

>(I'm also pretty sure that I can't
>tap KO for W before they it gets changed into a mountain by the Blood Moon,
>but I might as well mention this for verification.)

Correct; nobody gets or has priority, or can do anything at all, DURING the
process of having something come into play or DURING the process of applying
continuous effects, UNLESS a card says you can. Clone, for example, says you
can "choose a creature in play" during this process. Sutured Ghoul says you
can remove creature cards from your graveyard.

>I hope the answer is that it CIP changed that would make sense to me.

You do the beginning stuff, then apply continuous effects, then check for
triggered abilities. So for triggered abilities it "CIP changed"; for stuff
that needs to get done as, with, or how it comes into play it does the
stuff as part of coming into play, then gets continuous effects applied.

(In other words, "this CIP tapped" doesn't get undone by Blood Moon; Spikes
still get their +1/+1 counters if coming into play under Humility, though
the counters are meaningless until Humility no longer applies; a Clone
coming into play under Humility still picks a creature and comes into play
as a copy of it.)

Dave "wait, MY Forest doesn't have a smiley in its text box" DeLaney
-- 
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http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.