Re: Moria Maxim #1

I don't think I have every found a pair.  I may have seen one in a store
once, but not had the money to purchase them.  Speed items are VERY nice.
Shoes of speed are especially nice because they allow you to be very fast
with only on ring of speed.

"Kirk Ellett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Are Shoes of Speed that rare?  I am playing a human mage and I actually
> bought a pair of Boots of Speed in the armory (I had to mortgage my soul
> to get enough gold at level 11 though), and then I found a pair of Shoes
> of Speed at about 1200 feet in the same game.
>
> Kirk
>
> Brian Kastel wrote:
> > "Jeremy Neal Kelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> disagreed with...
> >
> >>"Brian Kastel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> who wrote...
> >>
> >>>Always finish a level you started.
> >>
> >>I have to disagree. While this is excellent advice for playing NetHack,
it
> >>does (or should) not apply to Moria. There are two reasons for this.
> >>Firstly, the Moria dungeon is essentially infinite in size, which means
> >>there are an infinite number of items, both good and bad. Secondly,
there
> >>are no unique items in Moria. You are right in saying that valuable
items
> >>could be missed if every level is not finished, but who is to say those
> >
> > same
> >
> >>items won't appear on the next level? Assume you find an HA somewhere;
> >
> > what
> >
> >>are the odds that the next weapon you pick up is also an HA? As it
> >
> > happens,
> >
> >>they are exactly what they were before you picked up the first HA;
that's
> >>what randomness is all about.
> >>
> >>There is no scarcity of items in Moria; the only scarce input is player
> >>time. Thus, to maximize your productivity in Moria, you should do
exactly
> >>the opposite of what you have recommended. If there is an unidentified
> >
> > item
> >
> >>on the other side of the level that you forgot to pick up, skip it, and
go
> >>on with your game. The items in the next area are just as good, and
> >
> > they're
> >
> >>closer, which means that ultimately, you'll see more of them.
> >>
> >>Consider also that, for characters without the identify  spell, the real
> >>constraint is not items, but identify scrolls.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Well, now.  I appreciate your thoughtfulness on this matter, however
your
> > points are based on invalid ideas.  Please allow me to explain.
> >
> > First, you state that Moria dungeons are "essentially infinite in size,"
and
> > use that erroneous statement as a basis for your next erroneous
statement
> > that there are "in infinite number of items" in the dungeon.  In counter
to
> > your basis, each level of a moria dungeon is only 3 screens wide (198
units)
> > by 3 screens high (66 units), for a total of 13098 units, by far the
> > greatest number of which are wall units.  Thus, while the depth of Moria
> > dungeons is conceptually "infinite," the playing field is quite finite.
> >
> > The fact that the levels are decidedly finite, however, is secondary to
the
> > counterargument to your second statement.  There can only be, in fact, a
> > maximum of 175 items on any dungeon level, and one must stay on a level
> > repeatedly killing monsters in order for that many to appear.  The
average
> > random treasure allocation is closer to about half of that.  Last time I
> > checked, 90 is pretty far from "infinite."  (Sorry - couldn't resist.)
> >
> > You then state that there are no unique items in Moria.  Granted, this
is
> > techically true, but Shoes of Speed might as well be, as I've only found
> > them once in the decade I've been playing UMoria, and I know of no one
who
> > has found two with one character.  The chance of having Shoes of Speed
being
> > allocated is so remote as to make them unique in practical play, and
their
> > value is inestimable.  Sure, ego weapons can be found often, but Shoes
of
> > Speed are like the Holy Grail, and if one were allocated and you missed
it,
> > there is vanishingly little chance you'd ever get them again.
> >
> > Your only valid point was your last one, and I agree wholeheartedly that
> > characters without an identify spell are incapable of acting on this
maxim.
> > Only Mages can effectively carry out this action, since Rangers and
Rogues
> > do no get the spell until well past 20th level.  I apologize for
neglecting
> > to include that caveat in my original post.  I only play Mage
characters, so
> > identifying items as they appear is routine for me.  I was inconsiderate
of
> > those characters who are magically challenged.  I hope you can forgive
me.
> >
> >
> >
>